Do you smoke?

[worm]

freud was obviously obsessed with sex. And he projected his obsession, and his fixation with his mother, onto the whole of humanity.

[worm]

this is the whole crux of the matter for me

Edited March 13, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

They aren't methodological frameworks for the person, they're methodological frameworks for the relationship between therapist and client.

If they say that they are over smoking yet they smoke, then they are in denial. If they give you credit for them quitting, then they're transferring. If they keep smoking because they say they can't cope, then they're regressing.

You can't deny the relationship and what the person is saying to both you and themselves. They may be rational, but they'll lie to themselves to get around themselves - especially if they're addicted.

[worm]

Oh that's fair enough. As long as they don't say smoking is a symptom of something else the client isn't aware of.

[feral chile]

It's often the case though. Denial is immense as are all of the other defense mechanisms. We identify with them because we perceive them as part of our personality as distinct from reality. In fact, there's no avoiding them as we are not privy to an objective world. We'd be like the Visitors from V without them (sci-fi reference for you).

I actually admire Skinner more than the other behaviourists. The age of behaviourism in the human sciences is over though, as CBT testifies. It's used in the computer sciences more han anything else now.

[feral chile]

The age of behaviourism in the human sciences is over though, as CBT testifies. It's used in the computer sciences more han anything else now.

[worm]

But how do you guard against the therapist projecting onto the client and then assessing that as denial? The therapists's human after all.

[worm]

it doesn't matter if all we are is physiological, as I believe. The way our physiology presents itself to us phenomenologically is important. You can't overlook that.

[worm]

this is labelling and categorising getting out of control as far as I can see. Even if a type of personality () is a pre-requisite, the variations will be as good as infinite... so where does it get you?

[worm]

surely we are how we perceive ourselves? If that includes our body, or however we 'see' our self, then that is it.

[worm]

then the physical self is also part of our intellectual self

[feral chile]

You see, to believe that is to realise something intellectually. You don't realise it physiologically do you. We aren't the body, but the experience of the body. The body tends not to deny itself, unlike ourselves.

Edited March 13, 2011 by feral chile

[worm]

Well as you know I believe the brain produces this experience of ourselves. I think somehow our brain draws all our sensory data together and combines it so it makes sense. And the way it does that is by separating the 'I' from the experience. So there isn't just red, there's a me who sees the red.

Which might be necessary on an evolutionary level - if you couldn't distance yourself from the experience, you'd have no mechanism for removing yourself from danger - you'd just be, no matter whether being was pain. Or destruction.

Edited March 13, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

The 'I' being a series of defense mechanisms at any given time often completely oblivious to the everyday danger posed by mortality. What about people who self-sacrifice? Are we going down the Dawkins route of doing it for the benefit of genetic survival?

It's all about narrative to me. We fit our idealisations and experiences into a pre-existing cultural narrative.

[worm]

Oh what we do with the 'I' once we've got it is a whole different ball game. I was speculating that it could be physical in nature. not what we do with it.

Edited March 13, 2011 by worm

[amfy]

There is such thing as physical addiction. A physical addiction will create an entire set of physical symptoms in withdrawal. For alcohol and benzodiazipines (this includes valium), this physical withdrawal can be severe enough to causing fits and death.

[worm]

There is such thing as physical addiction. A physical addiction will create an entire set of physical symptoms in withdrawal. For alcohol and benzodiazipines (this includes valium), this physical withdrawal can be severe enough to causing fits and death.