Selfish Ungrateful People

[eFestivals]

Economics don't concern me in the slightest as finance is nothing but the consequence of human ideals (money isn't real, it's based entirely upon consent). So the discussion of what we demand as consumers comes before the produce, as far as I'm concerned.

There's costs on to society from education which aren't economic.

It's not a one-way street. You saying it is that and only that gets to show your own lack of education.

[eFestivals]

So you denounce degrees in, for eg, Golf Course Management and Leisure and Tourism?

He doesn't understand the education process at all, does he?

[worm]

no, I'm prejudiced against those who consider themselves educated and belittle others as not as worthy as them

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm

[worm]

So you denounce degrees in, for eg, Golf Course Management and Leisure and Tourism?

[eFestivals]

Every higher education graduate has a degree in philosophy: The philosophy of a specific school of knowledge.

as does any qualified apprentice - but which you're too uneducated to grasp.

Education does not tell you how to do a job

Utterly wrong.

It can do. Your own lack of education is where you're going wrong.

[worm]

There's costs on to society from education which aren't economic.

[eFestivals]

Not at all. They're both schools of knowledge with an endless stream of principles that can be hypothesised, researched, critiqued, evaluated and assessed.

As is education of all sorts at all levels.

[llcoolphil]

Not at all. They're both schools of knowledge with an endless stream of principles that can be hypothesised, researched, critiqued, evaluated and assessed.

Edited January 19, 2011 by llcoolphil

[eFestivals]

Do you ever miss the point. I'm talking about principles. In principle, an educated shop clerk is better than an uneducated shop clerk. An educated society is better than an uneducated society. I don't let political bullshit cloud the truth. What I do instead is see what political bullshit can be removed so that we can get closer to it.

Oh, you're meaning a principle which doesn't relate to any reality.

I really should have remembered that reality never comes into any of your thinking. My bad.

[worm]

as does any qualified apprentice - but which you're too uneducated to grasp.

[worm]

As is education of all sorts at all levels.

[The Nal]

No, that's the result of learning what a job is. You learn how to do it for yourself.

[worm]

So if you do Golf Course Management as a degree it's an education but if you do it as an apprenticeship with, say, day release it isn't. I don't even know why Im starting down this line because there is no agreement to be had.

[eFestivals]

No it doesn't.

you don't have a f**king clue about apprenticeships.

As ever, you'll spout endless bollocks about subjects you know nothing of. That's as uneducated as things can get.

No, that's the result of learning what a job is. You learn how to do it for yourself.

Do you really think apprenticeships are about hand-holding?

Edited January 19, 2011 by eFestivals

[worm]

Neurosurgeons dont.

"Ah your first day is it? Heres a scalpel and a pair of gloves, go knock yourself out".

[worm]

you don't have a f**king clue about apprenticeships.

[eFestivals]

I was referring to university. What they say in the medical sciences is ''do you know this principle or that principle''? Then something like ''here's the books and resources you need, here's the established principles, that's what time there's a lecture you would benefit from attending, that's what time the seminar is where you can seek advice from your peers and mentor, here's the date we want you to tell us about how it all works and then you can tell us what you think you've learned''.

and still referring to uni, they then go off and do the practical.

[worm]

Oh, you're meaning a principle which doesn't relate to any reality.

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm

[worm]

and still referring to uni, they then go off and do the practical.

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

So completing an apprenticeship gives you a graduate degree in acedemia does it?

well of course it doesn't - it's not up its own arse with using self-serving terms as you are.

No, people who have compeleted apprenticeships are not graduates.

Wow, your uni education has come in useful after all, making such deep deductions.

If they are, then by all means I'll take back what I said and consider those people graduates. However, this would mean that apprenticeships are not a solution to the plight of non-graduate workers as prescribed by Phil.

'graduate' is just a word for someone who has completed a uni course, that's all.

An apprentice similarly completes a course, which goes thru the same academic process of 'how to learn for yourself' as any degree. It just so happens that at the end of it they don't say 'graduate', they instead say 'qualified'.

So, I'm now on I'm going to continually say to you that "you are qualified in nothing", because on the same moronic basis you're using with 'graduate', that is a literally correct statement.

Now, if you're prepared to remove your head from your arse and have a discussion on a reasonable basis where you don't resort to the use of self-serving terms to 'prove' () just how 'clever' () and 'correct' () you are, there's a discussion to be had.

But all the while you insist on being a self-serving moron, sensible discussion is impossible.

[Greeny_Musicchild]

Worm, you don't have to be a graduate to be educated. It's as simple as that. Your definition is insistent that the only way to obtain the qualities you list is to attend university and in that you are completely and utterly wrong. The only reason this argument continues is because you fail to accept that.

Now can we return to the point, which was how are apprenticeships going to benefit the non-graduate workers?

[eFestivals]

Yes, but they're then graduates in a better position than non-graduates. That's the point.

They don't graduate until after they've done the practicals as well as the classrooms you uneducated fool.

[eFestivals]

Yes, the principle that an educated society is better than an uneducated society in terms of the aspirations of equality, freedom, knowledge, wisdom, progression and so on and so forth.

all of these things are not exclusive to university learning.

Now can we return to the point, which was how are apprenticeships going to benefit the non-graduate workers?

For those with half a brain, the answer is this: it gives a life path no different to what university can offer.

[worm]

Worm, you don't have to be a graduate to be educated.

[worm]

And what the hell is that? The vast majority of apprenticeships are mixed with academic study. Most obtain a HND or similar in their particular discipline. As well as that you learn a skill which is usually a job for life, most of which are needed by a large number of people everyday who aren't educated in the subject enough to attempt it themselves.

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm