PEARL JAM

[funkymp]

im gonna give them a chance at reading, what ive heard - personally isnt my thing. but a few people i work with are adamant there a good band live. theres a load of video's of them on youtube where they look like complete headcases

[Cultseeker]

Right, so now your "massive collection of music" enables you to tell me what the most fruitful period in music history was? Behave yourself.

[Olivavu]

I grew up on a musical diet of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, The Rolling Stones, Marc Bolan & T.Rex and Queen. Add Frampton, Free and Fleetwood Mac to those.

I've never been in a state of liking what's around at the time, I've always listened to a range of 'era's'.

Pogal, you are indeed a cynic. Criticism exists to filter the good from the bad. It is not a case of 'I like this so it's good'. It's a case of listening to something from a knowledgable standpoint and going 'this is clearly f**king good' as compared to other music I'm aware of. The rest of the time from therein is spent coming to terms with why it is good. If it's still there after years of listening then you know it's good/valuable. If it was simply novel then you'd throw it away.

However, music now is seemingly marketed to appeal at a superficial, instantaneous level of appreciation, so that the 'this is clearly f**king good' factor is transferred into a 'wow, whats that shiney thing' factor that requires no thought before a purchase is made. This 'wow' factor is then transferred into instant dollar making it a disposable structure of music production. Once that band is seen through by the populas it is dismissed and so the marketeers demand a new product.

This is what is stifling good music in the modern age.

The Ninetees produced great bands because the machine of production always followed the talent rather than create it. Olivavu was right, it was fruitful. Look at what great music these guys are still producing and hardly ever to a instantanious level. It is all profound, quality music of the highest level uninterested in gathering fickle fans. It exists on its own from its own gathered genuine merit.

I hope this will change.

Edited August 7, 2006 by Olivavu

[MrMac]

Cast

Rialto

Blameless

Menswear

Audioweb

Warm Jets

Ed Ball

Dodgy

Reef

Echobelly

Theaudience

Silver sun

Geneva

Kula Shaker

Republica

Elastica

Nut

Gene

Nojahoda

Boo radleys

Supernaturals

Shed 7

Lush

Northern Uproar

My Life Story

Dubstar

Symposium

Sleeper

Space

Cay

60 Foot dolls

Bands I liked as a kid are in bold...and there seems to be plenty of em!

I still listen to some of them as well.

[Olivavu]

You forgot to mention Cast, Dodgy & Sleeper in the second post. Don't get me wrong, I have Dodgy & Sleeper CDs too (I drew the line at Cast though) - but I keep them in a cardboard box in the garage where they belong.

Noone could realistically compare the current crop of upcoming bands with the likes of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who etc, but they're certainly no worse than a lot of that first list.

[pogal]

Pogal, you are indeed a cynic. Criticism exists to filter the good from the bad. It is not a case of 'I like this so it's good'. It's a case of listening to something from a knowledgable standpoint and going 'this is clearly f**king good' as compared to other music I'm aware of. The rest of the time from therein is spent coming to terms with why it is good. If it's still there after years of listening then you know it's good/valuable. If it was simply novel then you'd throw it away.

However, music now is seemingly marketed to appeal at a superficial, instantaneous level of appreciation, so that the 'this is clearly f**king good' factor is transferred into a 'wow, whats that shiney thing' factor that requires no thought before a purchase is made. This 'wow' factor is then transferred into instant dollar making it a disposable structure of music production. Once that band is seen through by the populas it is dismissed and so the marketeers demand a new product.

This is what is stifling good music in the modern age.

The Ninetees produced great bands because the machine of production always followed the talent rather than create it. Olivavu was right, it was fruitful. Look at what great music these guys are still producing and hardly ever to a instantanious level. It is all profound, quality music of the highest level uninterested in gathering fickle fans. It exists on its own from its own gathered genuine merit.

I hope this will change.

[Olivavu]

But do you honestly believe that people who loved the music of the seventies (which is still the focal point for many today) weren't saying exactly the same thing in the nineties? That that decade was far more productive and this grunge fad would fade away?

Yes, they were. And I'll bet in ten years people are going on about how good the Kaiser Chiefs were and how all these new-fangled bands in the 201's are just rubbish.

I agree that the nineties were fruitful and by God, the majority of music imprtant in my life is from that decade, but I'm not narrow-minded or arrogant enough to presume that that makes it the greatest decade in musical history because I can see why I think that!

[pinback]

I think the 90's was the best the decade for music...by far.

I know why I think so as well...because that's when most of the bands I like were around.

That's my opinion at the end of the day...I'm not gonna say that I don't think it the greatest decade for the sake of open-mindedness or what have you...

[Cultseeker]

But do you honestly believe that people who loved the music of the seventies (which is still the focal point for many today) weren't saying exactly the same thing in the nineties? That that decade was far more productive and this grunge fad would fade away?

Yes, they were. And I'll bet in ten years people are going on about how good the Kaiser Chiefs were and how all these new-fangled bands in the 201's are just rubbish.

I agree that the nineties were fruitful and by God, the majority of music imprtant in my life is from that decade, but I'm not narrow-minded or arrogant enough to presume that that makes it the greatest decade in musical history because I can see why I think that!

[Split Tennis Ball]

2) The comparison is horribly marred as the Kaiser Chiefs are indeed pre-fabricated. Not one of the seminal grunge bands were/are.

[Cardboard Box City]

How does that automatically affect the music?

[Split Tennis Ball]

Because the band were born out of the will to make money rather than music?

[Cardboard Box City]

And how does that automatically affect the music?

[Split Tennis Ball]

Just because a band starts by being "pre-fabricated", how does that affect the music automatically? Why does "pre-fabricated" automatically mean "made to make money" anyway? If I/you/whoever put together a band out of who I think is the best guitarist/bassist/drummer/vocalist/etc. out of a certain group, are they automatically shit?

All I'm saying, basically, if that "pre-fabricated" is not a watertight argument against a band.

- Nora

Edited August 7, 2006 by Split Tennis Ball

[Cardboard Box City]

All I'm saying, basically, if that "pre-fabricated" is not a watertight argument against a band.

[Split Tennis Ball]

Other noteable pre-fabs, the Spice Girls, Take That, Five, The Backstreet Boys... See where this is heading? Its just something you don't do to have integrity to an audience away from the mainstream pop crap, although to be fair they weren't trying to get away from that audience

[Cultseeker]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, hypothetically, if a really good, but "pre-fabricated" band came about, you couldn't just say "they're crap, because they're pre-fabricated". It's not an argument in itself, it's like calling something "dated". It means nothing on it's own. Five (for an example) weren't crap just because they were pre-fabricated.

- Nora

Edited August 7, 2006 by Cultseeker

[Cultseeker]

Add one more band to my post 00 debut list Funkey mate - The Black Keys. That horrible half-arsed 'art student' attempt at post-modern blues that is the Kings of Lyon can f**k right off, the Black Keys have arrived*.

Whatsmore, they're supporting Pearl Jam in Paris.

* Hows that for tabloid journalism Pogal.

[crozbie15]

I always found pearl jam extremely samey through all of their albums, having failed to make great strides forward musically. Listening to the arguments of Pearl Jam fans i find their arguments to have developed very little from the playground much in the way the band have lacked any substantial development through much of their career. You are all regurgitating the same spiel and its time for some of you, especially Cultseeker and Olivavu, to grow up and stop being so insecure that you feel the need to insult everyone elses opinion for your own self satisfaction.

[Cultseeker]

I always found pearl jam extremely samey through all of their albums, having failed to make great strides forward musically. Listening to the arguments of Pearl Jam fans i find their arguments to have developed very little from the playground much in the way the band have lacked any substantial development through much of their career. You are all regurgitating the same spiel and its time for some of you, especially Cultseeker and Olivavu, to grow up and stop being so insecure that you feel the need to insult everyone elses opinion for your own self satisfaction.

[crozbie15]

Thank you for you're psycho-analysis compadre.

In particular, I thank you for the school ground analogy. Must have taken some time.

May I ask of you that you elaborate on what brought you to state such a concise lecture after such history as this thread has undertaken. Surely it wasn't the belief that your words would actually take effect?

Edited August 7, 2006 by crozbie15

[Cultseeker]

You're use of sarcasm requires no response. In my eyes it again makes you seem childish to dismiss something using sarcasm.

And thanfully i am not so naive that i believe you have any braincells inside that thick skull of yours which will allow you to consider any ideas which go against you own point of view. I am happy if you go on living in your bubble aslong as the bubble is away from me.

[funkymp]

what does everyone think about the chances of 'present tense' being played? got some live versions of it from the tour - sounds absolutely ace

[Cultseeker]

what does everyone think about the chances of 'present tense' being played? got some live versions of it from the tour - sounds absolutely ace

Edited August 7, 2006 by Cultseeker

[deutsche Harru]

I can't believe i'm going to defend Kaiser Chiefs, as i've met them and they are tossers.

But how are they pre-fabricated? They met through the Leeds indie scene, formed a crap band, then reformed themselves with catchier songs.

Say what you will about them - but I Predict a Riot will be played at Indie discos for many years to come, in the same way as Teenage Kicks, Common People, Cigarettes & Alcohol, This Charming Man are still played every week now. Tis a classic indie pop song.