Would it be 'wrong' to choose to be gay?

[abdoujaparov]

Which I would say opens up the concept that it could be "Wrong" to make that choice...

I would also argue that your sexuality can change as you go through life much like you tastes for other things does. Hence the way people swing from different sexual things.

[kaosmark2]

But sexuality isnt a taste, it's an innate characteristic...it's not like developing a taste for single malt whisky

[kaosmark2]

I've got to say, this is one of the most pointless and poorly argued discussions I've ever read on this forum, and I hang out in the R+L section

[Guest]

I've got to say, this is one of the most pointless and poorly argued discussions I've ever read on this forum, and I hang out in the R+L section

[Guest]

Well then you can fill your boots.

I am getting a little lost as I don't really see your point or what you want answering.

[abdoujaparov]

How is it not a taste? It's about your preference in sexual partners.

[abdoujaparov]

It is taste... He described it as being a physiological response to sensory stimuli... Which is what we get from all forms of tastes. Like with foods etc,

[abdoujaparov]

Choose to act on the gayness... To put it terribly... There are still clearly issues with making that choice.

[Guest]

no, sexual arousal is a physiological response to sensory stimuli...sexuality is an innate characteristic

[abdoujaparov]

what's an innate characteristic?

[feral chile]

I read that article as the author was quite defensive about being 'blamed' for something primarily out of his control, as if he'd done something wrong in having the sexual orientation he has.

i don't really feel there's much choice in your sexuality, I'm straight even though the liberal part of me (and my husband) wishes I was bi

But I've just never found a woman I've felt aroused by, and relished doing anything sexual with.

Intellectually, I think that it should be the person you're attracted to, not their gender. But I've never been able to put that into practice, thereby exposing the lie, maybe.

Though as a sci fi fan, I approve more of the hotties in those shows than glamour models etc. I don't think that's attraction as much as aspirational though.

Edited January 9, 2013 by feral chile

[feral chile]

what's an innate characteristic?

[Guest]

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/innate-acquired/

is a philosophical discussion of what's meant by an innate characteristic. basically, nature rather than nurture.

[feral chile]

thanks... I haven't read it all yet, but it seems that it's far from conclusive what an innate characteristic is, or what forms them. So.... it would be reasonable to presume that some of them can change. Environment surely has at least some effect on our sexuality... do single sex boarding schools 'produce' more homosexual behaviour, for example?

Edited January 9, 2013 by feral chile

[Guest]

I think environment plays a part. It's pretty impssible to isolate one from the other. If you have a genetic tendency to develop in a certain way, then your experiences could shape your relationship to that, if you see what I mean.

For all we know, it could be a genetic tendency to display traditionally 'feminine' traits, that society then identifies as being related to being gay (and vice versa for girls) rather than homosexuality per se. Then maybe, in adolescence, you'd start to identify yourself as being gay, because you display some of the stereotypical traits.

[feral chile]

yes... that's partly where I'm coming from. Gay people do this, and I do this, so I'm probably gay.... and at that point I could simply say, but I don't want to be gay, or I'm happy to not be heterosexual. I don't see why, for some it might just be a simple - well, maybe not so simple - choice

[abdoujaparov]

It's possible. The other possibility is that there's something deepseated going on, that might not be related to conscious choice. For instance, I've said i don't think I'm gay or bi - maybe I never met the right woman. Or maybe I'm the product of a very tough, homophobic Valleys neighbourhood, despite all my intellectualising. and sincere belief that gender shouldn't be the defining factor in who you fall in love with, maybe I made an unconscious decision to avoid all the hassle, or was subconsciously conditioned into thinking it was wrong. (I think the author of your article was stating that it's impossible, if you're gay, to have that choice - but there are more environmental factors at play than straightforward homophobia).

[Guest]

My view is that it's hardwired, hence my argument that it's an innate characteristic...I think that environmental factors may influence whether or not one's sexuality is suppressed, but cannot change it

[feral chile]

Reading this thread has been most amusing as it drifts further and further from the point...sorry, what was the question/discussion point again?

[feral chile]

I've been thinking some more about that article, and I think we've been looking at it all wrong. I now think that what he was saying is that he didn't choose to be rejected by society by becoming gay. And marriage is such a traditional convention, a form of respectability and social acceptance that has been denied them - and for what? for other people's prejudice - their problem, not his, but he's made to feel like social bigotry is his fault.

There's a lot of pain and rejection underneath the humour, and a sense of not belonging. And presumably wanting to, else why embrace the value system (marriage) of those seeking to refuse you entry into the biggest social institution we have - marriage and the nuclear family?

So the choice he's discussing is not being gay, but that of being outside society. And why should one include the other?

Edited January 9, 2013 by feral chile

[kaosmark2]

taste for something can change, an innate characteristic cannot

[abdoujaparov]

Your view. There's not hard-defined scientific evidence to prove it.

I fail to see any evidence or reason that you cannot acquire a tendency to get a pleasant tingling in your groin when you see a cock like you can acquire a tendency to get a pleasant tingling in your mouth when you taste coffee.

[Guest]

I've been thinking some more about that article, and I think we've been looking at it all wrong. I now think that what he was saying is that he didn't choose to be rejected by society by becoming gay. And marriage is such a traditional convention, a form of respectability and social acceptance that has been denied them - and for what? for other people's prejudice - their problem, not his, but he's made to feel like social bigotry is his fault.

There's a lot of pain and rejection underneath the humour, and a sense of not belonging. And presumably wanting to, else why embrace the value system (marriage) of those seeking to refuse you entry into the biggest social institution we have - marriage and the nuclear family?

So the choice he's discussing is not being gay, but that of being outside society. And why should one include the other?

[Guest]

My view is that it's hardwired, hence my argument that it's an innate characteristic...I think that environmental factors may influence whether or not one's sexuality is suppressed, but cannot change it

[eFestivals]

who cares if it's choice or not?

Whichever one it is, it's the exact same thing for straights too, and whichever way a person goes it has absolutely no effect onto other people.

So there's absolutely no reason for there to be any differences in law or attitudes. It's only the bigots who think there needs to be.