Selfish Ungrateful People

[eFestivals]

Worm, you don't have to be a graduate to be educated.

I've never once said that you have to be. Not once.

When we speak of the distinction between educated and uneducated people we're referring to graduates and non-graduates. Educated does not refer to people who have learned a skilled trade.

Yeah, you've never said, it, eh? PMSL.

Lies, more lies, and stupidity is all you're giving here - which shows just how little benefit your education has given you.

[eFestivals]

Again, we were talking graduate and non-graduate workers. Does an apprentice count as a graduate worker? If so, then giving people apprenticeships does nothing for the plight of non-graduate workers. It isn't a solution.

shut your ignorant and uneducated mouth, you unqualified moron.

[worm]

Yeah, you've never said, it, eh? PMSL.

Lies, more lies, and stupidity is all you're giving here - which shows just how little benefit your education has given you.

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

Or there's been some crosses wires.

perhaps ... but if there has been, it's because you're far less educated than you want to believe of yourself.

[Greeny_Musicchild]

I've never once said that you have to be. Not once. What I have said is that you aren't a graduate. If you aren't a graduate then you are a non-graduate. And both myself and Phil were using the term educated and uneducated worker interchangably with graduate and non-graduate. Look back and see for yourself. I've explained this twice since.

If you want me to apologise for my use of educated worker to mean graduate worker then I will, as it's besides the point.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Greeny_Musicchild

[worm]

perhaps ... but if there has been, it's because you're far less educated than you want to believe of yourself.

[worm]

It's implicit in what you're saying. You're suggesting that what you gain from a university degree is more beneficial to society and an individual than alternative study. That may be you opinion but it is not fact. And you have said that, more than once.

Also, you don't need to give me an apology for that, as it's not what you've done.

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

Or because Phil and I were talking about education in relation to graduate workers/jobs and non-graduate workers/jobs.

That is no excuse for your belief that only those who have attended uni are deserving of being referred to as educated.

The very fact that you've done that proves your idea about that as wrong. You have attended uni and yet still prove yourself as uneducated by those very words.

And as I keep pointing out but you choose to ignore, the things which you credit *just* university as being able to give are things that are equally available from the school of life.

University has a place, but you don't half talk some utterly worthless and ignorant crap about it, and by doing so demonstrate that it's not all you claim for it.

[worm]

Edit: to clarify, I do in fact agree with your sentiments Worm. Anyone who has the ability and desire to attend a university should. They should have the access and the resources to do that regardless of their walk of life. Everyone is entitled to the highest level of education provided. University just isn't for everyone, and making everyone go is not a viable way to educate across all social and economic levels. What I'm suggesting is that there is, or there can be, an alternative that is no worse and can provide an equal level of education.

[worm]

That is no excuse for your belief that only those who have attended uni are deserving of being referred to as educated.

[eFestivals]

I've never once said that, nor do I believe that. I was referring to education as it applies to graduate and non-graduate workers.

there's no end to the bollocks you'll spout is there?

Greeny nailed you completely, with the quotes of your he dragged out. They make it perfectly clear that you were talking in general terms and weren't saying something specifically only for this discussion - otherwise you simply could and would not have said "morally and literally".

(and where you laughably got the 'literally' literally wrong )

They're still uneducated. Skilled, but not educated.

Pretending that training for a trade is an education is fundamentally wrong (morally and literally).

When we speak of the distinction between educated and uneducated people we're referring to graduates and non-graduates. Educated does not refer to people who have learned a skilled trade.

[worm]

there's no end to the bollocks you'll spout is there?

Greeny nailed you completely, with the quotes of your he dragged out. They make it perfectly clear that you were talking in general terms and weren't saying something specifically only for this discussion - otherwise you simply could and would not have said "morally and literally".

(and where you laughably got the 'literally' literally wrong )

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

Education in the sentence is still referring to a higher/academic education. It is literally and morally wrong to pretend that training for a trade is a form of higher/academic education.

what is "literally and morally wrong" here is your claim that it's not a form of higher/academic education.

As you can see, I'm still referring to a higher/academic education when I say literally and morally.

and as you can see, you're no less wrong than you were the first time you said it.

This is generally what we're referring to in the context of educated and uneducated workers, yes.

Only if the person making such a statement is unable to recognise what is education and what isn't, and has their head shoved so far up their own arse that all they see is shit.

Again, true. When talking about the educational distinction between graduate and non-graduate workers, learning a skill does not make you educated.

How many times can someone claiming themselves as 'educated' and 'an academic' demonstrate that they are neither?

Face facts, uneducated is perceived as an implicitely derogatory term, which was never the intention of my use, as I have subsequently made clear.

Yet the more you post, the more those words are exposed as a lie.

[worm]

what is "literally and morally wrong" here is your claim that it's not a form of higher/academic education.

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

So you can graduate from the academy by doing an apprenticeship, can you?

and we're back to your use of self-serving idiot and meaningless language as your only way to hold the idiot position you've taken.

Back in the real world, yes, an apprentice COMPLETES their education.

You see, while you were spouting insults, me and Greeny moved the discussion to address whether or not an apprenticeship includes graduation from the academy. If so, then of course you can come out with a graduate education and are therefore a graduate worker.

OK, let's go with your idiot version of self-sertving language, shall we?

Yes, you can come out with a graduate education but are unqualified at everything. And what use is someone who is qualified for nothing? Nothing.

But this means that the issue of non-graduate workers has not been addressed by the idea of apprenticeships as we're just creating more graduates. But this means that the issue of qualified and trained and useful workers has been addressed by the idea of apprenticeships but that graduates are qualified for nothing at all, and so good for nothing at all

Corrected for you, in the sort of moronic language that you value so highly but which says nothing that's intelligible.

Edited January 19, 2011 by eFestivals

[worm]

and we're back to your use of self-serving idiot and meaningless language as your only way to hold the idiot strange you've taken.

[RABun]

So you can graduate from the academy by doing an apprenticeship, can you?

[eFestivals]

So you can graduate from the academy by doing an apprenticeship, can you?

yes, you complete the course of study at an academic institution by doing an apprenticeship.

In case it's passing you by, the language you're using has no other meanings.

Would you like to answer the question? You see, a graduate worker as opposed to a non-graduate worker is a worker who has a degree from university.

what about self-serving language are you finding so hard to understand, given that you believe yourself to be highly educated from a premier institution?

Are you educated enough to know that the language you're using is meaningless?

You see Neil, we've been talking all along about how apprenticeships may be a viable alternative to university for non-graduate workers.

Yes, we have.

But you've also talked about how anyone with out a degree is literally and morally uneducated, and when you said it you were not referring to anything of that.

My point is that potential graduates will take on apprenticeships rather than univeristy placements, thereby not helping out the plight of non-graduate workers.

And that changes things from what we have now for the people trying to get the most basic of jobs how exactly?

Currently, we have those who've been thru uni taking the jobs of those who've not been thru uni and who have not done an apprenticeship. If fewer go thru uni and do apprenticeships instead, not one iota about that situation is changed for those who have not done uni or an apprenticeship (tho the benefits to industry and so the country are hugely greater than sending people to uni without jobs to match their wrongly held belief in their superiority).

And just to add to your display of ignorance, you're not even aware that those doing apprenticeships have jobs.

And finally ... you are the perfect role model of a uni failure. A qualification which is able to get you no job.

[llcoolphil]

And that changes things from what we have now for the people trying to get the most basic of jobs how exactly?

Currently, we have those who've been thru uni taking the jobs of those who've not been thru uni and who have not done an apprenticeship. If fewer go thru uni and do apprenticeships instead, not one iota about that situation is changed for those who have not done uni or an apprenticeship (tho the benefits to industry and so the country are hugely greater than sending people to uni without jobs to match their wrongly held belief in their superiority).

And just to add to your display of ignorance, you're not even aware that those doing apprenticeships have jobs.

And finally ... you are the perfect role model of a uni failure. A qualification which is able to get you no job.

[worm]

I have an HNC in construction which is literally the 1st 2 years of a degree in construction management or surveying. That does not make me a qualified builder or a graduate - so am i uneducated?

[worm]

This (apart from the rude bits)

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm

[eFestivals]

No. But you're a non-graduate worker.

It's you that's wrong, and I should have picked up on it earlier.

People with either an HNC or HND graduate no less than someone with a degree does.

But the real point here is that 'graduate' is a meaningless word. All it means is that a person has completed a course of study, and nothing more.

Yes, I didn't necessarily disagree with this. I just pointed out that it would make more working class people drop out of university, which I think would be a sad thing to happen.

you just can't help being a patronising arsehole with an overstated sense of superiority, can you?

Which part of "you are not in the position to say what is sad for others" are you failing to grasp?

Edited January 19, 2011 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Would you like to extrapolate as this.....

''Currently, we have those who've been thru uni taking the jobs of those who've not been thru uni and who have not done an apprenticeship. If fewer go thru uni and do apprenticeships instead, not one iota about that situation is changed for those who have not done uni or an apprenticeship''

...is exactly what I've been f**king saying!

your previous words get to show that you've said nothing like this, but only something very different.

I don't think I've ever met someone as unable to read as you who thinks themself as educated and an academic, but it does explain an awful lot.

[eFestivals]

That's a carbon copy of what I said!

You really are a very thick twat, aren't you? ;lol:

I referred to three groups of people, while you referred only to two. Learn to f**king read.

[worm]

It's you that's wrong

Edited January 19, 2011 by worm