Do you smoke?

[feral chile]

There you go look. You're assessing the differences in ideological and social background. You're doing this in relation to the 'person'. How can you do this without conceiving of a person?

Is it not better that you understand the person before telling them how better to behave?

One is a judgement of someone's behaviour whereas the other is a symptom of someone's psychology.

Edited February 19, 2011 by feral chile

[feral chile]

There you go look. You're assessing the differences in ideological and social background. You're doing this in relation to the 'person'. How can you do this without conceiving of a person?

Is it not better that you understand the person before telling them how better to behave?

One is a judgement of someone's behaviour whereas the other is a symptom of someone's psychology.

[worm]

You think that's not a judgement of attitudes and behaviour?

Edited February 19, 2011 by worm

[worm]

A person is a projection of the human organism with a reservoir of attitudes, beliefs, desires and behaviours. These are not necessarily fixed. Though humans develop hypotheses and behaviour based on the predicted consequences. These can become habitual, which is sometimes productive, sometimes counter-productive.

Edited February 19, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

I agree, with the amendment I've made.

I agree. But you're looking to identify a problem as part of someone's personality, by assuming that the personality is them. It's a machanism used to assess because it is part of the ideological system we live in, it's not a diagnosis of an illness. Like I said, traditional Freudian analysis is a load of bollocks because it was taken literally.

You can't assume that personality (an interchangable social projection or mask) is that person's human core, which is what you're effectively doing. You have to realise that it is a real identity that is there to function in a social and ideological world.

[worm]

Yes, but if this woman needs to change something about herself in order to keep/reclaim her child, would she be likely to think it was more difficult to change her personality, her personality disorder, or her actions?

Edited February 20, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

The point here is a pragmatic one. Whether you're changing her actions or her behaviour or her personality or her sense of self doesn't matter to her. This is the knowledge and expertise that the therapist has it her/his disposal. You can speak to her humanistically and put it in terms that she relates to. In fact, I think this is imperative.

The only point I'm on about here is the analysis of the problem, not the way in which we phrase it to the client. My point is that in seeing her and her behaviour as according to a personality in crisis, rather than as a rational choice maker in error, we see the client for what they identify with rather than what we think they should be. We identify with what we do Feral, so what you tell her to do will affect who she thinks she is and that is going to fail if she doesn't feel herself some rational choice maker.

[worm]

But how do you treat a personality disorder?

[rabid]

How do you pm someone?

[feral chile]

In case you're still wondering, see that envelope under peoples names and avatars over there on the left?

[feral chile]

Well first off I'm not a psychotherapist. But secondly, I think you're running away with yourself a bit. We're only at the first stage (the theoretic stage) of analysis, so we're just looking at her personality and at who she thinks she is according to the experiences that she's had.

[worm]

In case you're still wondering, see that envelope under peoples names and avatars over there on the left?

[worm]

Social services use these diagnoses to support their decision to remove children from parents.

[feral chile]

Well of course. The child has to be in danger first of all though. The mother is being assessed in terms of her environmental affect on the child. I know, I've been through the process of court to social services to therapy as a father.

[worm]

Of her FUTURE environmental effect on the child. So if her circumstances have completely changed,they're saying uh-uh personality disorder, still a problem.

Edited February 22, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

In case you're still wondering, see that envelope under peoples names and avatars over there on the left?

[feral chile]

This isn't true and is exactly why the self is a crucial concept to be used. The self is comprised of environmental, biological, experiential, narrative, intellectual, social, historical, political, well you get the picture I'm sure. We'll call it existential. So the process is in finding what factors are apparent in the apparition of the disorder.

Behaviourism on the other hand only looks at the environment in relation to a rational entity. Cognitive behaviourism is used because it is practical and cheap, not because it is comprehensive.

[worm]

And because it's effective.

Edited February 22, 2011 by worm

[feral chile]

There's no way of verifying this. What length of time are you looking at? What group of people? What aspect is it affecting? In what way is it overcoming the effect? What is the effect?

Cognitive behaviourism turns the person into a rational problem solver when confronted with problems. This is extremely short lasting and is nigh on useless in overcoming deep bio-psychological problems such as depression. I could go on. It's effective for rational people and those without any major psychological issues.

[worm]

I don't know how it's verified, I was just looking at personality disorders and the website said CBTwas successful in treating it, as CBT tends to be credited as being generally.

I take your point regarding evaluating effectiveness though. And I can't imagine CBT working with depression, with its emphasis on goals. Though maybe changing thought scripts might work in mild cases.

But yeah, anything with a strong implication of chemical imbalance such as psychotic forms of illness, including depression, probably don't respond well to CBT.

[rabid]

On other people's - mine seem to have vanished.

Paranoid now - have I been sent to Coventry?

[worm]

Why would you want to send yourself a PM?

[rabid]

It's these psychology types man, they're f**king mental!

[worm]

What about post-modernist types then? What do you perceive is there?

Edited February 23, 2011 by worm

[rabid]

I'm a hoot at parties.