cellar

But you do know I'm referring to the decades of human rights abuses by Israel, not just this one specific conflict.

The same sort of logic can be used to justify Hamas actions in the first place. Not that I believe we should be trying to justify the deaths of innocent people. I think we can point out wrongdoing on both sides, and Israel is culpable for far more than Hamas over the years, and not just because of numbers of lives lost.

Yeah I think you're right, and will be the right course of action. Interested to see what the impact of Christmas will be like this year - if I remember right last year was a drop from 2021, but still one of the highest in Europe. We just rely on Christmas to keep our economy afloat don't we?

You did say there would be, fair play. Also was reading yesterday that wages outpaced inflation for the first time in a while (I think these were the actual figures revised over estimates from earlier this year). Still, some positive news.

Noted, and I appreciate it.

Well, fair enough - at the very least, even if its no representation of his character in real life, his actions in this thread today were intended to deliberately stir up trouble with Neil, and it was out of nowhere. So happy enough to put it all behind us if we end up being lucky enough to get tickets, but still think his behaviour today in this thread is totally unnecessary and should be called out.

Yeah I get the whole history, I've also seen him act like a bully and try to bait Neil on multiple occasions - most recently today. Surely you can see that from his posts in this thread, even if you disagree about previous occasions. Absolutely unnecessary.

He has a weird obsession with trying to bait Neil and then play the victim.

I've known he's a bit of tosser since some of the other unpleasantness a few months back, just avoided him in this thread when it seemed he was making an effort to contribute to the discussion - but then today just decides he wants to lose the pretence all together apparently. I hope he doesn't have any pets.

Nah you're alright, I haven't blocked anyone yet and not about to start with you. Happy to call out your weird little complex though.

You just come in here to try and start some trouble, why? You having a bad day, or do you think it scores you some Internet points you little scruff? Proper big man.

Jog on you absolute weapon

They all show up for me. Also very interesting/scary.

Also I don't care what the Tories support. I want them out regardless. I'm more concerned about what the future leader of the country supports. It's not hard, for most, to understand this.

Someone's rattled 😂

So, you're supporting Starmer, who supports Israel... Do you think Israel has committed war crimes? Do you think there is an apartheid state? Do you think the West is complicit in the situation? Or is all of this irrelevant and superceded by blind support for a party that should win the next GE with their eyes closed anyway?

Did he say this? Think he's just pointing out that it's a bit sh*t that people who should know better are supporting war crimes. Honestly it's mad how much people are defending Israel on here.

The UN has determined that war crimes have been committed. Forced displacement.

And yes of course what Hamas has done is horrific. But that doesn't excuse what Israel has done over the years.

Well yes we agree that it is depressing. And I think putting it down to fairy tales is reductive, and I've just heard it a lot. But I meant no offense to squirrel, I think they're a good poster. It's just not one of those "both sides have their reasons" justifications. Both sides may have their reasons, but Israels methods over the years have been horrific. That's what should be focused on (I believe).

I think you keep pushing for this stance to try to draw people into an argument on your own terms, because you realise its impossible to defend Israels actions over the last 50 years. I don't think anyone on this thread has celebrated what Hamas did though - unless you can provide an example?

I think before all of this I would have expected more support for Palestine, but not so sure now. Although I do feel like there is a lot of media frenzy going on - a fair few people that I know can see that Israel is committing war crimes, even if they haven't necessarily been aware of the situation in the past.

They shouldn't have been supporting Israel in the first place - but this is the price we have to pay for Labour winning an election, apparently. If it wasn't so awful it would be laughable.

Yes, I think they are now. As it was inevitable that they would. Committing war crimes... That is their right, of course.

Of course all of these these actions are bad, but the overarching problem for the last 50 years is that this is a one-sided fight. And I've heard a few people with the "This is just two people fighting about who's fairy tale is true" line. It doesn't sound as clever as they think it does, and is incredibly reductive.