cellar

No idea how you made that correlation, but maybe it's just time to let it go 😉 (You're incorrect again by the way)

Maybe it's just because he comes across as more right wing? To be honest most everyone in the list is pretty centre anyway, but its just a bit of fun... Although it does remind me of when they get the couples in Married At First Sight to rank the other couples 😂 Just asking for trouble!

Haha I love this... I'm not really sure about matiloy to be honest, it usually seems like he's talking academically in his posts so I never got a real sense of where he actually falls. I reckon Stevie is more left than he comes across. Nobody, Skip, Crazy, me, Stevie, Fray, Barry, Neil, Ozanne, Lost I guess based on other peoples rankings matiloy falls somewhere left of Stevie

That sounds like me to be fair 😂 (not that I am an expert, just that I think I am 🙂 )

I have no kids so this goes right over my head!

You being incorrect and me being an expert? Seems to happen quite often in this thread 😉 Seriously though, what I said was that you put me off voting for Labour, not that you are deciding my vote for me. But don't let facts get in the way of your tirade.

You are incorrect again - trust me, I'm a bit of an expert on the subject 😉

The funny thing about this conversation thread is that you're actually just proving the original point even more 😅

You are incorrect, but you believe whatever makes you feel better.

This is it in a nutshell really.

Three people have expressed the same sentiment, so maybe there is something to it. Also you don't get to decide if I'm serious about politics or not, I'm afraid - I think you know that though (maybe, hopefully).

Funny thing is, he was replying to someone agreeing with me, when I was agreeing with someone else 😅 So yeah, Ozanne has all 3 of us sussed by the sounds of it. Or he really is just pretending to be a Labour voter and is projecting!

Haha, I've thought exactly the same thing. I don't think anyone (outside of politicians) has ever put me off voting Labour more.

Completely agree with that actually

I do like the idea of some parts of a technocratic government, but I guess the principles of it means it's quite dispassionate, so maybe does become quite ruthless in it's decision making. Plus all very scientific so would never please the religious types.

Ahh, I've managed to push your buttons! I win - goodnight 😉

Unhelpful to you, sure. I suppose I could do better, but then so could you, right? You don't know what I'm talking about when I refer to trash media in relation to benefits?

I think if we had a fairer system in general, there would be no need for people to commit benefit fraud. I wish it was simple as that, really. But since life isn't that simple, if I'm going to complain about people getting more money than I think they're entitled to, it's always going to be rich people... Like yeah, always. Not a hard one for me.

These "examples" are so prevalent because of trash media. Honestly if someone feels the only way they're going to be able to get along in life is to commit benefit fraud, then things probably aren't that great for them anyway. I don't understand the need for people to punch down as much as they do.

You can surely see that the administrative and practical costs are widely different on the two - changing the level of government top up on pension contributions so that its not based on income tax would be very easy to do; and something that has been talked about for years (at least 8, since that's as long as I've known about it). So no, they aren't doing anything about it. I don't think we have the same idea of fair, though. So maybe that's the issue.

I suppose its because you were saying the same sort of things I'm used to angry right wingers who complain about benefits street saying that I thought you were annoyed - I'm glad you're not though, it's not worth getting upset about. It would be much, much easier to get rich people paying at least the same as poor people into a SIPP, shouldn't we start there? Or are you happy with that system? Getting corporations to pay the correct amount of tax should be easier too, and with greater financial benefit, but I guess there is the potential "risk" of them taking their business elsewhere (absolute nonsense really).

Going after/directing comment at. I would never "go after" anyone in that sense, actually I just started the day off trying to have a reasonable discussion with you, and then was stuck in work all day and came back to like 8 pages of updates 😂

Oh, seemed like you were annoyed from some of your posts. Seems like a very rose-tinted view to think that fraud won't exist in any sort of structure that involves humans and money if you ask me, but if you have a solution, I'd love to hear it!

Yeah I wasn't just going after Barry with that to be fair, only the first part of my post was specifically aimed at him, should have made that clearer (double spacing definitely isn't enough in hindsight 😅)

Lot of posts here today! Barry, I feel like there's an implication from you that the 96% of valid claims aren't all entirely valid, is that right? Or are you just really pissed off about the 4%? My original point around punishing the real claimants was based on the premises that it would be impossible (or at least not cost effective) to clamp down on benefit fraud without also impacting real benefit claimants. If that's true, then I'd happily take the hit on 4% fraudulently claiming to ensure the remaining 96% get what they need. Also on the subject of tax avoidance, tax avoidance isn't equal. Rich people avoid more tax by nature of them being rich (see: SIPP government top up payments). The system is incredibly messed up. Everyone has the same ISA and SIPP yearly contribution allowances, but how many people on a Basic Rate of tax will ever be able to utilise those? And then to add insult to injury, a Higher or Additional rate tax payer needs to pay less into a SIPP to hit that allowance. How is that fair? And finally, the weird attempt to draw a comparison between Glastonbury volunteers working for their tickets to benefit claimants is one of the thinnest arguments I've seen around here for a while 😂 Entertaining read though.