cellar

Yeah maybe. Less of the insults though please, this thread has been lovely recently.

I don't know really. If a cornered cat scratches the person cornering it, do you start having a go at the cat? I just think it's a strange response to what I said, to go "Yeah but Hamas are sh*t as well." The narrative of shifting blame onto Palestine doesn't sit well at all with me (as you've probably gathered). But I know you like to play devils advocate, so maybe it's just that.

Hey if you want to support apartheid then a guy on a message board isn't going to stop you, right?

Also, just to clarify this here - you're suggesting that Israels right to exist is somehow under threat by recent events?

I guess pro-Israel was a poor choice of phrasing, so I apologise for that. I think that the atrocities committed by Israel since, what, the 70s? Deserve much wider condemnation from the international community than they have received. I think (hope?) one day we will look back and wish that we had done more to stop it. I think Western countries, particularly America, are complicit in enabling these atrocities. To me this is a militarily dominant country exerting its power in an awful way, and it shocks and saddens me that it's allowed to continue. I still don't fully understand why it is allowed, but assume it must be to do with money and power. I don't care for the religious aspect - I know that ultimately is a part of it, but it has no bearing on my thinking (a privilege, I know).

Out of interest, no one here is actually pro-Israel right?

Christ, hope she's okay.

Completely reasonable point to make, and I fully agree.

I'm just being a bit facetious. But if Scotland gained independence I would milk my half heritage for all its worth. Also very happy to get on board the "Scouse not English" train, however cliche that might be 😂

To be fair, being English should be a crime

Whilst I agree and wish something could be done - the age we're living in now, Ofcom shutting them down would likely just add fuel to the right wing fire, so to speak. Scary times.

I think the sad thing, as we all know, is the whole thing is just a political tool. Xenophobia is the oldest form of propaganda and all that.

I agree with this pretty much - something feels a bit wrong with the idea of taxing some people more than others, but maybe it is a sort of middle ground. I think there would need to be an expiry date on it though, like the tax would only apply for a few years or something. Either way I couldn't see anything like that ever getting implemented. The additional costs and headaches of setting up and maintaining that system would be a nightmare for HMRC.

Maybe just leave it now guys.

Haha, well good! Every day is a school day and all that. Yeah I can imagine. For what it's worth I don't think they should be banned for it, just called out on it, which they have been.

Just a time and a place isnt there, obviously say those sorts of things to your mates down the pub, or your partner in bed (if thats your thing), or even in DMs to Ozanne. It's all about context. But I'm sure you know that anyway.

Happy enough to move on, I did just think it was important to be clear on what the issue was. To be honest I'm not entirely convinced either of them really appreciate that what they did was wrong - even though as Fray has pointed out, they're quick to identify it in other posters.

There was a post yesterday from Ozanne that was literally just "I think Priti Patel is pretty hot," and then a reply from Stevie along the lines of "That Penny Maudaunt though..." In a thread that is about politics and discussion, that absolutely is misogynistic, and the old "it's just a bit of a laugh" excuse doesn't wash (it just makes it worse in fact). And the responses to it on being called out - I don't care if the word is trolling or if its more accurate to just call it petulant - to say "here are the thread police again" or whatever, thats what the issue is, and it's obviously going to wind people up who are calling it out.

I'd never really thought about it like this, but its a pretty good way of looking at it. I like the comparison to UKIP and Brexit.

Yeah I get free health care stuff, which I've never used either really apart from when they give us these health check up things. I say use them if you can.

At least you can own up to it and apologise, fair play

I think its just being pointed out that objectifying women in the way some people were doing yesterday is pretty gross, and also incredibly hypocritical.

I'm sure it's all just a bit of fun when they do it!

Oh good

Haha yes