mikegday
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Posts posted by mikegday
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The Christmas rules make it clear that nowhere will be in Tier 1 come Christmas. Otherwise in T1 going out for Christmas dinner to a restaurant with another household would be ok - whereas it’s not ok under the Christmas rules.
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39 minutes ago, found home in 2009 said:
We've had dinner at my parents sitting miles apart. In the restaurant we were sat right next to each other. Both had sanitiser outside the toilet. But in my parents house I know they would have been using it and they would be the only people that could have touched the door. Whereas in the restuarant there could have been hundreds of customers that touched the bathroom door handle without sanitising.
You could say all families will show a different amount of caution, but similarly I reckon all businesses will make different amounts of effort to comply with the rules too.Like you say as a general rule all families will show a different amount of caution. You’re clearly very sensible inside your parents house. I think when Gov. came up with the idea of meeting in a restaurant vs. meeting in homes it was done with assumption not everyone will be as sensible. Plus if you’re going to have people do something risky, you may as well do it somewhere there’s an added benefit (support jobs) as opposed to letting it happen in private dwelling’s without that added benefit.
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1 minute ago, found home in 2009 said:
At one point the rules in my area meant I was allowed to have a meal in a restaurant with my parents, but not go to their house. My mum had been really missing us so the four of us went for a meal at a restaurant bringing us in contact with a waitress who had been in contact with lots of people. In my opinion following the rules put us at more risk than if we'd behaved as we would of without the rules and had dinner at my parents house.
That’s assuming you would have behaved in your parents house as you would in a restaurant. I’ve always argued you are much more likely to ‘relax’ in a house you’re familiar with than a restaurant. Also I presume the restaurant wasn’t normal? The waiter you’re referring to would have been masked and kept their distance right? If your parents had been dishing out food to you, they would likely not have followed the same protocols.
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10 minutes ago, xxialac said:
Ironically, a lot of people - not people on here but a lot of people - voted because they don't like foreign people. Given labour needs, what will happen is that white foreign people (who they don't like) will be replaced by brown skinned foreign people (who they like even less).
and I will laugh every day at this. I have said this throughout to anyone that will listen. I voted to leave knowing and welcoming this! The people who voted to leave the EU to stop Indian immigrants - hilarious and bonkers!
Hence what I’m trying to respond to here. I’m trying to defend and show how wrong the original post was and how it shows 4 years on nothing has changed, no one is prepared to listen or treat anyone as an individual.
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24 minutes ago, xxialac said:
You say 'reasons' but you've given one reason and one reason only:
"For immigrants to be given equal status when applying to move to the U.K."
Is that all you can come up with?
I’ve given the reason I needed to in response to a post I didn’t agree with.
to the other posts; it’s safe to say in hindsight given what’s still going on we were all unqualified to have a say in this - did I feel unqualified at the time? Of course not. I was right there thinking I knew best!
In regards to making us all poorer etc. I apologise for my part in that. I’ve just said that i’m gutted at the time and money this is wasting.
But the reasons and intention can’t be pressed onto someone. I can’t speak for the way you voted the way you did and you can’t do the same for me. Hence why I responded to this post. ‘Brexiteers’ and ‘remainers’ are not just 2 things, it’s millions of individuals with their own thinking. What the original post set out was no better than the Tory’s saying ‘people’s priorities’ - we are taking a huge step back if we think for one second any 2 people can be lumped together. There is no ‘people’. There is no one ‘brexiteer’ voice or one ‘remainer’ voice. There are individuals only.
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28 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:
Do you still think your vote was the right decision given where we are in negotiations?
No, I wish I voted to stay now. Not because I think my reasons for voting to leave or even leaving is wrong but because the process of leaving and negotiating a future deal is just so massive and consuming every bit of energy and money from the gov. I completely underestimated how difficult this was going to be, not surprising as a 20 something spending most of my day doing admin or scratching my bollocks. Only a few people in this country were really qualified to make this decision. Unfortunately we were all given a choice and now it must be acted. The intention I think is right and I do think Britain will be a powerful force for good, but I despair at the time, energy and money going into sorting out what I voted for.
It’s really complex and every single person who voted to stay and leave done so for so many different reasons, that’s what gets me so angry at people 4 years on diluting it down to ‘brexiters voted to get rid of South American nurses immigrunts (how dare you write immigrunts)’ - ridiculous!
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1 hour ago, squirrelarmy said:
Just to add to it, she’s South American so one of those “immigrunts” that brexiteers don’t think should be in this country.
I voted for Brexit so everyone (South Americans included) applying to move to the U.K. is considered equal irrespective of where the individual currently lives. Your comment is tosh and really frustrating that 4 years on we’re still in our trenches. I’m a ‘brexiteer’ (in that I voted Brexit, mad to try and lump 17million people as one entity). I’m very much looking forward to an increase in non-EU migrants, migrants from around the world who will benefit and find it much easier to do so once everyone is considered equally.
But please stop, it’s absurd to portray 17million people as thinking identical or to say you know why 17 million people voted the way they did.
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4 hours ago, rivalschools.price said:
If we go back to tier 3,What’s the difference between that and the current lockdown,I can’t remember.
As far as I recall the only difference is that the shops are open
Lots of differences, not just ‘shops’ but leisure and hospitality (where a meal is served) too. You can also meet people outside again. Essentially the stay at home message goes. In Tier 3 we went for our haircut, ice skating, to a pub for a meal - none of which can happen in lockdown.
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Does anyone think Cain and Cummings will leave and go back to Gove, who will try and challenge Boris once he has revealed the EU deal.
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2 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:
At least you'd not left any 'embarrassing' tabs open... thats always my fear.
You’ve just reopened old wounds for me!
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3 minutes ago, Copperface said:
Blimey. Is that what it says? That's a bit worrying.
Using that stat of 76.8% sensitivity. Though the 95% sensitivity if high viral load, is interesting. What’s the definition of high viral load? How many people with the virus, have a high viral load? I hope I’m wrong, because that false negative seems huge!
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46 minutes ago, Copperface said:
Good news.......I think.
So putting them numbers into real life (think I’ve got my sums right)
False positives - For every 300 positive results, 1 will be incorrect if processed outside a lab (1 in every 2000 if processed in lab)
False negatives - For every 300 people with the virus, 69 will actually test negative (15 if the 300 all had high viral loads)
So it’s true you are much more likely to test negative falsely than testing positive falsely. Quite a worry that’s so many people with the virus would test negative??
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9 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:
General question out of interest should it become commonplace around the country - if you have a test off your own back and have 0 symptoms, are you expected to self isolate before getting results back or are you allowed to go about daily life as normal until/if you get a positive test?
Go about ‘normal’ life until result arrives - you’re not showing symptoms after all. I realise how stupid saying normal life sounds right now!
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11 minutes ago, crocodiles said:
Got my swab tests result back just now about 28 hours from test . Negative fortunately as expected. But hopefully the more of us in liverpool and those who work in liverpool take part the better
Got ours at 8pm this evening too, 31 hours since test. Both negative - but like you say I’m hoping lots of people continue to take the test. Problem is I think those who don’t really care about it all and are doing as they please, they’re the ones who should but won’t get a test!
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32 minutes ago, The Dawg said:
Seeing separate photos of my sisters in Australia in crowded bars and not a mask in sight is making me think how are things so different over there? One is in Perth and the other Queensland.
Because their borders are shut, internal state borders too. As an Australian I can say Australians are used to much stricter enforcement of rules/regulations even without a pandemic. We are two completely different countries. British government’s apply a much more liberal style of control, not the best when you’re dealing with a virus that requires tight controls. But then Brits have more ‘freedom’ in normal times. We can’t have it both ways unfortunately.
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5 hours ago, efcfanwirral said:
Let us know what's happening with it - what type of test you get etc
Standard swab test for us. But my closest test centre is in St. Helens, we work in Liverpool. You must only get the new tests if you choose one of the new test centres in Liverpool. There doesn’t seem to be a distinction between the centres, something they probably should put in.
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In Liverpool too, partner & I both getting tested at 1.30 today. Really hope big majority get on board.
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Looking forward to Biden going over 70million votes!
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So happy these later counts are coming up Trumps for Biden!! Michigan get it!!
Watching CNN on tv and guardian app on iPad has been the best combo since 3am.
Feeling much better about state of play now.
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Morning guys - it’s going to be ok right? I’m thinking very narrow but still think we’ll see end of Trump in Jan.
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9 minutes ago, blutarsky said:
In fairness I was posting in the middle of the night while trying to get a baby who doesn’t want to sleep, to sleep, so apologies for missing the nuance 😂
If people are catching it because they contravene guidelines that is on them, HOWEVER, not all guidelines are crystal clear, so there is an argument it’s not always the fault of the people catching it through contravening guidelines.
Ultimately blaming other people is what the Tories want us to do, as a scapegoat for their incompetence and cynical manipulation of a pandemic to line their pockets.
I get that and I’ve said in my post the government have made a completely mess (understatement!!). But I do think people know the closer you are to someone the easier it is spread. I think a lot of people are using the mixed messaging as easy way out. I don’t think anyone meeting up, taking selfie’s with their mates, all piling into the same car - that’s not confusing the guidance. Yesterday on my Instagram, ambulance call centre, someone was leaving work so they all had a big group photo. Why? All rammed next to each other hugging for a photo op. It’s proper getting to me why people can’t just keep their distance (when they can)
edit: just to add sorry, but where you’ve said ‘when people catch in because of breach of guidance, that is on them’. That’s the basis of my post, it isn’t really on them is it? There’s no stigma. We just go on ‘oh no, hope you’re ok. Let me know if you need anything’ ... hang on, how about - shit, hope you’re ok, what do you think you bloody did that resulted in you catching it.
it’s not enough to just let this continue and let people catch it ‘on them’ because it’s not just them. People are dieing and people are continuing to spread it. Why!!
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5 hours ago, blutarsky said:
I’m a teacher working in a school where the Covid measures are at best token, so please, tell me how it’s my fault if I catch it?
I suppose it is, because I haven’t decided to quit my job, meaning my wife and I can’t pay our mortgage and become homeless. My fault because I choose to go to work in a non-safe environment over living on the streets in winter with my infant daughter?
Sorry, but your take is a pretty bad one - not the worst, but pretty bad. You need to be able to look outside your own situation and realise complete isolation isn’t as easy for others as it is for you. How do I maintain 2m distance from 33 students in a room which is 50m2? How do retail staff maintain 2m distance when stacking shelves in an aisle which is less than 2m wide? How do medical staff maintain 2m distance when treating patients?
Unfortunately you decided to totally ignore the part where I’ve acknowledged some people’s work and caring responsibilities means some transmission is inevitable. You catching it is not your fault at all. My thinking was is all of these cases we’re seeing solely from those people? No. Some is from people being careless and it’s those that I can’t get my head around. It’s those that continue the chain on through carelessness that inevitably make it more likely that you, in a job that makes it impossible to distance, will catch it.
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3 minutes ago, Quark said:
Sounds like your experience is dealing with people that haven't taken it seriously, which I guess is colouring your perspective accordingly.
I saw my brother in Sep for the first time in 6 months. He's been taking it very seriously throughout, and I know he's been doing the right stuff. He didn't try to give me a hug or anything when we met, but when my mrs went to get a photo while were out his immediate reaction was to chuck an arm around me for the photo. And I had to push him off. Horrible. And he was mortified that he'd forgotten himself.
There will be a lot of people making those slips, and that's because we're all having to fundamentally alter the behaviour that we're not just used to, but is a core part of how our society works.
Some people are dicks. I know enough of them myself. But a lot more people will be the ones that have those one or two slips, and they deserve some slack.
Fair enough, it definitely is influenced by what the experience of my family/friends. I lost my grandad last year and when I’ve gone to sit in my nans garden through summer one time time she sat there crying about Grandad but I could only try and comfort her through talking - it was incredibly hard but I didn’t risk physically comforting her. So I am angry that I managed to do that but others can’t seem to avoid hugging for a selfie.
I’ll move to a ‘cut slack, but not too much approach ’ because ultimately I do think part of the growth is through carelessness and that in my eyes that is wrong. I’ll wish anyone well and a speedy recovery who tests positive, but I also think those people should be asked to scrutinise why they think they caught it and could they have avoided it? Public figures are testing positive, where’s the scrutiny there? Did they do something careless to catch it? Is that the right message to put out ‘oh silly me, I’ve caught it’ WHY? HOW? People arnt void of all responsibility. I’m horrified by the way this government has mishandled this crisis, but I also stick to my thinking of people do have a duty to think about their role in this too and catching it through carelessness makes those people part responsible.
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7 minutes ago, Quark said:
Lots to unpack there.
Some people will absolutely have contracted and passed it on through carelessness or whatever else you want to call it.
But we're also talking about a highly infectious pandemic disease that can spread both by touch and as airborne particles. None of the measures that we have in place are 100% effective. The 2m, the masks, the handwashing, all the rest of it, none is 100% effective. Not completely.
Not everyone can work from home. Lots need to go on site to work. Not all employers, colleagues and customers will be doing it properly. So yeah, you're going to have people who have gone to work, taken as many precautions as they can, and still got it.
We've also had a govt telling us to go to the pub and go back to work. And add in all the rest of the shit they've been up to.
At the same time, I'm in a similar boat. My main reason for taking so many precautions is that I don't want to to contribute and be a transmission vector, and drag this thing out longer than we need to.
So should people feel guilty if they've knowingly and very clearly broken guidelines for no good reason? Yeah they probably should. But there's a lot of people who'll have caught it through no fault of their own, or from a single momentary lapse like forgetting they can't rub their nose if they haven't washed their hands. And no, they don;t need the extra weight of guilt.
You sound (understandably) stressed like the rest of us, but there's a lot of reasons why this ain't the best take.
Appreciate the reply. I do get that there’s an certain number of infections inevitable, like you say just because of people’s work scenarios and I do acknowledge I’ve got it easier than most. But I’ve literally had scenarios where I’ve met auntie and uncle out at a park recently and as soon as we get out of the car, my auntie tried to come towards me ready to hug. Why? I obviously had to step back and awkwardly decline. But I’m under the impression that she must do that to everyone and has been throughout. I just can’t get my head around it growing like this all these months in and feel like the numbers we’re seeing arn’t inevitable and can’t be just down to people’s less than favourable work conditions.
Like I say my sister today is mouthing off at me because she won’t be able to afford rent etc. If she isolates but I’m struggling to sympathise when she’s blatantly done what she wants throughout this. My step mum called me stupid on the summer for refusing to step into their house when I stayed outside their front door, like I say she’s now tested positive.
People may not need the guilt added onto them when they’re poorly, but we also can’t continue like this either. Surely we need to scrutinitise more why people are passing it on and yes in a way, make people feel responsible for it too! If my sister gets it, she is 100% responsible for not distancing and in my eyes 100% part-responsible for passing it on to anyone she does (as is person contracting it) my sister works in a psychiatric residential/hospital too - which further annoys me for the risks she has taken throughout.
When will this shit end?
in Chat
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Technically ye, but for comms and compliance that would be a disaster. On same day you can meet household A and B in your house but not a restaurant, then you go and meet household C in a restaurant but not your house.
Because of how much of a mess that is even for this shambles of a Gov - surely these rules are based on them knowing no where will be in T1 come Christmas?