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BBC cutting songs from sets...


turricandan
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On 6/29/2022 at 1:21 PM, Barry Fish said:

Your mind can play tricks on you to be honest.  Youre in a totally different head space in the middle of the action at a festival. 

Yeah can't totally discount it.  Some truth in both our view points here probably.

I noticed this at Arlo Parks but thought at the time maybe the actual stage sound on the day. I even thought maybe she was having trouble with her voice. Thourougly enjoyed it whilst there but on playing it back there was definately some sound issues, was it the beeb playback? I'm not sure 🤔

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10 hours ago, gizmoman said:

It pains me to admit it but Neils right, the whole gig is prerecorded (other than the percussionists), I watched it yesterday and wasn't sure so checked again today, just compare the Glastonbury  gig to the one on youtube from Stockholm, exactly the same vocals, same timing, phrasing etc, I'll give Tennant credit though, he's a pro, I was watching first time yesterday looking for a slip and there was only once he was slightly off.

Lots of shows run prerecorded in some way, either per-song or the entire show. For example, Chemical Brothers recent shows are a set sequence from start to finish - they press play and the entire show runs like clockwork with all the visuals working in sync. The live part is how they tweak and mix the elements, trigger samples, overlay synth parts etc.

For PSB, they're doing something similar, it's one or more pre-recorded sequences with all the visuals in sync, while they're adding live elements including percussion, various keyboard parts from Chris, and Neil's lead vocals. I really don't think he's miming, at least not much of it. It mostly sounds very live and there are subtle differences between shows if you listen carefully - remember these are classic songs he's sung hundreds of times, so the phrasing and timing will be pretty much set.

I think it's perfectly OK to perform in this way, it makes for a more spectacular show to have everything pre-planned, sounding good, with great visuals synchronised. The credibility hinges on how much of a live element is included, how sophisticated the visuals are and the overall aesthetic. PSB pass this test with a great show, including plenty of live elements.

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58 minutes ago, autoinflate said:

Lots of shows run prerecorded in some way, either per-song or the entire show. For example, Chemical Brothers recent shows are a set sequence from start to finish - they press play and the entire show runs like clockwork with all the visuals working in sync. The live part is how they tweak and mix the elements, trigger samples, overlay synth parts etc.

For PSB, they're doing something similar, it's one or more pre-recorded sequences with all the visuals in sync, while they're adding live elements including percussion, various keyboard parts from Chris, and Neil's lead vocals. I really don't think he's miming, at least not much of it. It mostly sounds very live and there are subtle differences between shows if you listen carefully - remember these are classic songs he's sung hundreds of times, so the phrasing and timing will be pretty much set.

I think it's perfectly OK to perform in this way, it makes for a more spectacular show to have everything pre-planned, sounding good, with great visuals synchronised. The credibility hinges on how much of a live element is included, how sophisticated the visuals are and the overall aesthetic. PSB pass this test with a great show, including plenty of live elements.

I've no problem with the music being largely pre-recorded/pre-programmed for a band like the PSB, it would be impossible for Chris to do it all live, and I agree it was a great show, but I think an audience have a right to expect live vocals, I don't even have a problem with Neil "double tracking" his vocals by singing along to a recording if thats what it take to get the right sound but if he is just miming to the same vocals at every gig that is not acceptable IMO.

So the question is "is he miming", my initial thoughts (before Neils comments) were that he probably was, the vocals sounded too good, so I had a good look at the BBC recording and wasn't sure, saw one point that I thought was sus but the rest looked good, but as you say "these are classic songs he's sung hundreds of times, so the phrasing and timing will be pretty much set" and that applies just the same if he's miming, he can get it looking pretty spot on (and it's difficult to maintain that throughout a 90 min set). After I saw Neils comment I checked again and have come to the conclusion he is miming, as I said I'm not happy to say that, I'm pretty disappointed with them. Just had another look now and if you look carefully during "So Hard" there are a couple of points where his vocals don't match, at 26.17 he mouths "and you" too early and at 28.25 he goes a bit too early again, not very far off but enough to raise doubts. I could spend an hour or two reviewing the recording and picking out other examples but I've got better things to do and to be honest they are not that easy to spot, he is very good.

At the end of the day it's down to the individual to decide whether miming is acceptable if it means a better sounding show, some people don't care, I do, I think it's cheating, I'd sooner hear a real live voice even if it isn't perfect.

 

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2 hours ago, gizmoman said:

Just had another look now and if you look carefully during "So Hard" there are a couple of points where his vocals don't match, at 26.17 he mouths "and you" too early and at 28.25 he goes a bit too early again, not very far off but enough to raise doubts. I could spend an hour or two reviewing the recording and picking out other examples but I've got better things to do and to be honest they are not that easy to spot, he is very good.

 

Nah, I disagree, for the first one he just opens his mouth wide, drawing breath, before signing the 'and you'. For the 28.25 he does an exaggerated gesture before the line, which makes it look a bit off.

More to the point, all the way though the show the vocals just sound live, with volume variations due to mic technique, weak/flat notes here and there, particularly in the lower register as is typical of live vocals. He sings very well though, especially for his age, which I guess is why people think he's miming.

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28 minutes ago, autoinflate said:

Nah, I disagree, for the first one he just opens his mouth wide, drawing breath, before signing the 'and you'. For the 28.25 he just does an exaggerated gesture before the line, which makes it look a bit off.

More to the point, all the way though the show the vocals just sound live, with volume variations due to mic technique, weak/flat notes here and there, particularly in the lower register as is typical of live vocals. He sings very well though, especially for his age, which I guess this is why people think he's miming.

You're right! I just checked the Glasto 2010 performance to see how it compared, he is clearly singing live and sounds great, I'm sorry I doubted and humbly apologise (to Neil T that is) he clearly does have an amazing live voice, quite surprising when people never really rated him as a singer on record.

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20 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

You're right! I just checked the Glasto 2010 performance to see how it compared, he is clearly singing live and sounds great, I'm sorry I doubted and humbly apologise (to Neil T that is) he clearly does have an amazing live voice, quite surprising when people never really rated him as a singer on record.

Haha, i was doing the same (watching 2010 for comparison) and I noticed that he often does these little facial expressions / mouth moves, just before delivering a line, which makes it look like he's a bit off. Can see it particularly in the chorus of Suburbia towards the end of the song.

As for his voice, I think it's one of the most interesting and unique voices to emerge from the 80s or even since. There are many technically better singers, but who else sounds like him?

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Just now, blutarsky said:

Nice, thanks. That wasn't there earlier in the week - it was a 60 minute show with 30 minutes of Arlo Parks and 30 minutes of IDLES. 

Think the tv footage is very different to the website footage. We have abandoned the tv footage in favour of just watching the individual sets. 

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3 hours ago, Pinhead said:

Maybe, maybe not - depends on the criterion they use so as not to upset their incumbent paymasters.

They got complaints when Stormzy just stepped on stage. So there would never b e a shortage of complaints whether its just performing while black or speaking about the realities of the current state of affairs

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Just watched some of the Charlie XCX set (I hadn’t seen it live) quite sad to see the amount of miming going on. On Gone she’s just singing tiny sections and letting the backing track fill in the gaps.   It doesn’t feel right to have such an over reliance on backing tracks for the lead vocal.  
I'm going to have to go and look up what overdubbing is compared to miming if that’s what Billie’s set had.  It looked to me like she was miming some songs when I was watching live, she shouted something like “get that vocal track out of there, why is that even playing?” on one track.  

Didn’t think Neil from PSB was miming tho, he had some backing vocals for odd bits with vocal effects (like Heart) but you can hear weaker bits of vocal and slightly duff notes here and there. 

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1 hour ago, PassingCloud said:

I saw Jarvis has to change the lyrics of his song at the request of the BBC, but if you saw the Amyl & The Sniffers set they used a massive load of c**t. I mean, they are Australian so perhaps it’s allowed. 

Probably more that he is a seasoned broadcaster as well so knows the headaches it could cause. I was there and was pretty surprised that the crowd behaved with it too. But then he had plied us with sweets and compliments by then. I was looking forward to bellowing out the uncensored version but it was still cathartic singing about pricks. Better fitting given RvW too. 

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On 6/29/2022 at 2:40 PM, Neil said:

just wondering if songs have been cut from sets because of use of the n word or similar? the beeb are very hot on that at the mo.

Also hot on not annoying the tories 'cause license fee.

On 6/30/2022 at 11:17 PM, Pinhead said:

They're running the coverage through their 'political expediency' filter just in case someone criticises...

Not just me then.

On 7/1/2022 at 8:48 AM, Suprefan said:

So pretty much any artist that spoke about human rights this weekend eas essentislly blocked. Got it.

Maybe.

On 7/1/2022 at 8:38 PM, CaledonianGonzo said:

Lorde telling the Supreme Court to do one is intact in her set 

Maybe I'm just paranoid then?

 

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Yeah a lecture on Human Rights might not go down too well with a government about to replace the international definition with one of their own 'taking back control' interpretations. They hate judges and lawyers telling them what to do however (as in golding them to account), so they might be happy with Lorde...

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