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Crowd control issues


dulcificum
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3 hours ago, DTichborne said:

Some things are hard to predict - I thought Jarvis Cocker would have a big crowd, but we were near the front in loads of space. But one thing they should definitely do is cut out the "secret sets" and poor schedulings of large acts. Other than that, it was noticeably busier than when I last went in 2016 but I didn't have any major problems. This however is coming from someone who has been going since 1994, and experienced an horrific crush in 1999 that meant - whether it's in the "spirit of things" or not, the superfence was a necessary thing.

They need to just lower the intensity of acts on at the secret sets, like in 2019 when Frank Turner did half of them.

2 hours ago, kemosabe said:


Couldn't agree more. Also, if we all spent our time in the T&C fields and/ or Greenfields then they would be fucked too. On that note actually a friend of ours who spends the entire festival in those fields said even they were far busier this year then normal...
 

Yeah, they were still comfortable but noticeably busier. Like, I would have to queue for a couple of minutes for food or toilets there which I don't think I've ever had to do previously, you'd just walk right up/in.

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Was there maybe a plan for a new area to go with the increased capacity as a 2020 celebration thing, which they then didn't have the funds to follow through on?

Could it have been where the Pylon staff camping ended up going?

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32 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Just not the case. Lots and lots of people saying it was busier.

Yes, but that is from people going to Williams Green on the Thursday to see Mel C and being surprised that lots of other people had the same idea, or lots of people going to The Park at the same time and also being surprised that they were not alone. 

Now if there were reports of the Pyramid Field being over capacity on Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon at points when there were expected to be big crowds then there might be a point. There may well have been crowd managem issues with them scheduling things on the wrong stages at the wrong times, but I really didn't get the feeling that there was more people than normal. The camping areas didn't seem any busier than normal and certainly not at 2000 and before levels. 

I was going around all areas at different times of the weekend and never felt it was too busy, and was even going through the middle of the Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon peak crowds at the Pyramid with my 7 year old in tow... Was just normal Glastonbury crowd overall... Just some bad crowd management in some areas, not excessive numbers on the site as a whole. 

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I felt it was much much busier than my previous 7. I got caught in mental crowds in random places like the Bandstand. 
It seemed harder work navigating the site, took longer to get served at bars, it was definitely over the numbers I’ve previously been a part of.

 

Wednesday/Thurs seemed a bit crazy, with too many people and not enough to see. I’ve never seen a Wednesday that packed.

Edited by Stu H
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Definately busier from my 22 attendances point of view - stuff on Wed and Thurs that for many years has only had a smattering of peeps there were already rammmed. But if you think this felt busy - just imagine if it had been a wet year like 2016 with everyone squeezed down the tracks and no where to sit and peeps in venues just to shelter from rain!! We were VERY lucky it was a dry year so peeps could spread out etc...

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Out of the 7 I’ve been to, we all agreed that this felt uncomfortably busier at times. The extra tickets that they sold really did make it less enjoyable and bordering on dangerous at points. South East Corner was a nightmare on Saturday. TLC and also McFly/Sugababes and Arcadia. They really need to expand south east corner now as it’s become so integral to the festival and Saturday was a nightmare. Also, as a member of the LGBT+ community, it is a bit of a shame that I can’t ever make it into the Downlow anymore. Could do with expanding that in particular. 

I think a lot of this could be somewhat improved with better staging decisions and more competitive clashes to split the crowds. Still had the time of my life. But it did take a bit of the shine off. 

Edited by Glasto7
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I got caught in a lot of crushes this year.  What I was really surprised by is when a crush was forming, people choosing to join it and just thinking they could force their way through.  Especially into Avalon.  It's clear the field is full... no lets just push harder to get in ?!?  There definately seemed to be an air of stubbornness and desperation and lack of planning ahead to get in to see the things you wanted.  People trying to do too much by just pushing their way in.  No willingness to walk the longer, but potentially quicker route or to abandon plans and see someone else.  I think that maybe comes from experience and ppl have either forgotten or too many newbies in the crowd.  

And yes, Sugarbabes, TLC, Wet Leg, McFly should have been on bigger stages. Williams Green on Thurs should not have been attempted... ridiculous line up against nothing else.

Hope they reduce capacity in the future.  Even with extra areas, the pinch points on site are not going to get bigger.

Edited by Glast0baby
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27 minutes ago, robin said:

Yes, but that is from people going to Williams Green on the Thursday to see Mel C and being surprised that lots of other people had the same idea, or lots of people going to The Park at the same time and also being surprised that they were not alone. 

Now if there were reports of the Pyramid Field being over capacity on Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon at points when there were expected to be big crowds then there might be a point. There may well have been crowd managem issues with them scheduling things on the wrong stages at the wrong times, but I really didn't get the feeling that there was more people than normal. The camping areas didn't seem any busier than normal and certainly not at 2000 and before levels. 

I was going around all areas at different times of the weekend and never felt it was too busy, and was even going through the middle of the Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon peak crowds at the Pyramid with my 7 year old in tow... Was just normal Glastonbury crowd overall... Just some bad crowd management in some areas, not excessive numbers on the site as a whole. 

No it isn't. You're just ignoring the many posts in the thread at this point. Everyone knows the Thursday Mel C / Bastille thing was packed because it was in a tiny field, that's a separate issue and could have happened any year.

What about the numerous posts about it taking a lot longer to get anywhere, the queues which weren't there before, the (thankfully few) times people felt unsafe?

I understand people are incredibly sensitive to criticism of a festival they love so much but people are saying they've been going for many many years and noticed it much busier this year. 

This kind of thing is too important for glib dismissive attitudes about people concerned for their safety. As has already been mentioned the utter horror at the Travis Scott concert was not very long ago, and it's really concerning to hear that a lot of experienced and specialist staff/security workers have left the industry. Stop telling people their experience didn't happen. 

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Got caught in the tlc crowd coming from pyramid during wolf Alice. Tons of space near West holts bar and glasto Latino bit but took us 40 mins to walk there never seen it that rammed. Was in arcadia early for chemical brothers slot and there was  tins of room near far bar. Took us ages to get out. Proper vibe killer Wet leg rammed they could have played high up in other and it would have been rammed. They've got massive since they were probably booked.

 

 

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Don't tell me my experience didn't happen either. The site as a whole didn't feel any busier than normal. The camping areas are a good indicator and with people taking bigger tents than decades ago, but there didn't seem to be tents piled on top of each other as I used to see. 

Unless there was some mass fence jumping that nobody noticed the increase of 10 or 20k people among a population of 200k+ isn't enough to suddenly cause overcrowding everywhere.

More likely a change in people's perception and bad crowd management. 

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One thing that often gets me, but really got me this year because of how busy it felt elsewhere at times, was that the Pyramid field isn't always used that well? When the Pyramid's quiet, the rest of the site will be relatively heaving, and when the Pyramid is heaving, everything else feels relatively quiet.

But they often put stuff on the Pyramid during the afternoon that doesn't really draw the crowds, and if they're going to keep having 220K people in the place I think they're going to have to rethink what they put on there and when. 

Also, I know the 'new band that's suddenly blowing up, playing to packed small stage' thing is a fun regular feature of any festival, but there are so many people at Glastonbury that it's hard to get away with here. I reckon have a couple of post-lunch slots on the Pyramid over the weekend that they reserve for acts that would already be on site and that it makes sense to bump up. Could give it a fancy name or tie it in with the BBC Introducing stuff they do, make it a prestige thing to be the acts doing those slots.

Edited by catavento
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1 hour ago, willgooneday said:

Could part of the issue be people demanding more space and people getting fatter - it seems daft but as an armchair theory lets roll with it. 

This Paul McCartney at the 2022 festival, a bigger draw than either of the below surely yet it seems like people have a massive amount of personal space around them in comparison. Both of the other headliners were post fence so that's not an explanation. If you replicate that over a field of a thousand people you're going to end up with crushes going on at the back because there's another shit tonne of people who could fit in the past if people weren't keeping a personal bubble around them. And then obvious with the weight increase in the general population and you're going to start having issues. 

image.thumb.png.059a78dfd1855266eac9af16bf0a21c1.png

This is Arctic Monkeys in 2007 - not quite as rammed but people still packed in pretty tight - seem not to want to jam arms though

image.thumb.png.bba659a89ca64f2cd52c8a022bd9355f.png

This is Faithless in 2002 - everyone packed in like absolute sardines, arms pressed up against eachother.

image.thumb.png.2d711653511b2d43ad7b7ab9dfc84259.png

 

(I'm taking the piss, I just wanted to post photos of old sets, clearly though people are less jammed in these days to a small extent which is going to create minor issues at other areas where people would have been at the front in that crowd now are) 

I'm not sure the fatter people is a factor, but i think that the general Post Covid awareness of giving people space probably has something to it. 

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1 minute ago, SouthbanKen said:

I'm not sure the fatter people is a factor, but i think that the general Post Covid awareness of giving people space probably has something to it. 

But surely this needs to go one of two ways, people accept that a festival isn't really somewhere you would have ever been afforded that space in the past and go back to how things were - or capacities need to be reduced by 1/3rd. I'd rather the former to be honest, 

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2 minutes ago, willgooneday said:

But surely this needs to go one of two ways, people accept that a festival isn't really somewhere you would have ever been afforded that space in the past and go back to how things were - or capacities need to be reduced by 1/3rd. I'd rather the former to be honest, 

I think it will naturally find its way back to "normal" we have to remember that this is the first year back after two very not normal years. For some people this was the first large event that they have attended in almost three years. It will work its way back to normal i am sure. 

 

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11 minutes ago, robin said:

Don't tell me my experience didn't happen either. The site as a whole didn't feel any busier than normal. The camping areas are a good indicator and with people taking bigger tents than decades ago, but there didn't seem to be tents piled on top of each other as I used to see. 

Unless there was some mass fence jumping that nobody noticed the increase of 10 or 20k people among a population of 200k+ isn't enough to suddenly cause overcrowding everywhere.

More likely a change in people's perception and bad crowd management. 

I didn't say your experience didn't happen. You're saying people were only noticing usual crowding and that it would only be concerning if it happened at the Pyramid 🤨 just because it didn't feel any busier to you, that doesn't diminish all the other opinions that say they felt it was busier. You should read this thread properly. Are you really saying that all the people who say it was busier than, for example, 2019 are wrong?

You were just lucky you weren't caught up in some of the concerning things which have been reported. That doesn't mean they didn't happen and don't need addressing. Just take your blinkers off.

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16 minutes ago, robin said:

Don't tell me my experience didn't happen either. The site as a whole didn't feel any busier than normal. The camping areas are a good indicator and with people taking bigger tents than decades ago, but there didn't seem to be tents piled on top of each other as I used to see. 

Unless there was some mass fence jumping that nobody noticed the increase of 10 or 20k people among a population of 200k+ isn't enough to suddenly cause overcrowding everywhere.

More likely a change in people's perception and bad crowd management. 

Agreed, loads of people saying that the toilets and food stalls were busier and you had to queue for ages at the bars. I don't think i queued for more than 5 minutes for food or drink at any point over the festival - just used bars and food stalls that weren't next to the main stages or used them when there was an act on that i didn't want to see. Same with the loo's. If you need to eat your dinner from 18.00 - 20.00 right next to the Pyramid during a gap between acts expect to queue. If you don't want to queue for ages, be a bit more flexible. It's really not difficult. 

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Been to every fest since ‘94 and this was by far the busiest (2000 aside). What got me was that even the quieter venues or areas were packed, so the usual joy of stumbling upon something fun and lingering didn’t really hold this year. As mentioned above if it had been a wet one can’t imagine how crowded it would be with everyone trudging along same trackway. Hope they have a rethink. 

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2 minutes ago, Splatt said:

Been to every fest since ‘94 and this was by far the busiest (2000 aside). What got me was that even the quieter venues or areas were packed, so the usual joy of stumbling upon something fun and lingering didn’t really hold this year. As mentioned above if it had been a wet one can’t imagine how crowded it would be with everyone trudging along same trackway. Hope they have a rethink. 

I think there could have been some nasty incidents if it had got muddy

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Felt busier on the Weds for me. Only been going since 2010 but just use a tactic of getting their handy and heading in from the side on what we call "The Switcheroo" in-between acts.

Got a decent speck at The Park for Wet Leg but having ended up with a bad spot for Big Audio Dynamite I have sussed if you go up and around the back you can drop in down the left hand the left of the stage. So many times people get so far and think ahh well its busy when in fact near the front has room to move. 

Front pit for Elbow, Idles, Metronomy and Pet Shop Boys. Just behind the main pit for D Ross using above tactics. Actually ended up on the stage fence for Nightmares on Wax.

Edited by faymondo
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1 hour ago, robin said:

Yes, but that is from people going to Williams Green on the Thursday to see Mel C and being surprised that lots of other people had the same idea, or lots of people going to The Park at the same time and also being surprised that they were not alone. 

Now if there were reports of the Pyramid Field being over capacity on Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon at points when there were expected to be big crowds then there might be a point. There may well have been crowd managem issues with them scheduling things on the wrong stages at the wrong times, but I really didn't get the feeling that there was more people than normal. The camping areas didn't seem any busier than normal and certainly not at 2000 and before levels. 

I was going around all areas at different times of the weekend and never felt it was too busy, and was even going through the middle of the Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon peak crowds at the Pyramid with my 7 year old in tow... Was just normal Glastonbury crowd overall... Just some bad crowd management in some areas, not excessive numbers on the site as a whole. 

But there were more people there. That's not in dispute. There were more people, and no extra space. That's a matter of record. If it didn't seem busier to you, then you must be mistaken.

Now we can debate all week about how much busier it was, and god knows I'm sure we will, but it was busier. Unless somehow there were as many no-shows as there were extra punter/volunteer capacity.

14 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

Agreed, loads of people saying that the toilets and food stalls were busier and you had to queue for ages at the bars. I don't think i queued for more than 5 minutes for food or drink at any point over the festival - just used bars and food stalls that weren't next to the main stages or used them when there was an act on that i didn't want to see.

I've always done that unless it's a food stall I really want to visit. Here's the thing: those ones you queued for 5 minutes for, in previous years you would have not queued at all -ergo, it's busier. 

Busier doesn't mean everywhere had massive queues, it just means some of us have been going a long time, and when one of our favourite haunts like say, The Children's World cafe has a 10 minute queue for breakfast/lunch instead of a 2 minute one, we notice. It's not an inconvenience, just evidence for what people are saying and some are denying: it was busier.

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21 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

I didn't say your experience didn't happen. You're saying people were only noticing usual crowding and that it would only be concerning if it happened at the Pyramid 🤨 just because it didn't feel any busier to you, that doesn't diminish all the other opinions that say they felt it was busier. You should read this thread properly. Are you really saying that all the people who say it was busier than, for example, 2019 are wrong?

You were just lucky you weren't caught up in some of the concerning things which have been reported. That doesn't mean they didn't happen and don't need addressing. Just take your blinkers off.

No I'm not saying people didn't experience crowds, I'm saying that the site as a whole was no busier than normal. 

Maybe more people going to smaller stages at the same time than normal, and bad crowd management. But got no impression that there were more people than normal 

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13 minutes ago, robin said:

No I'm not saying people didn't experience crowds, I'm saying that the site as a whole was no busier than normal. 

Maybe more people going to smaller stages at the same time than normal, and bad crowd management. But got no impression that there were more people than normal 

OK, well a lot of people, including me, disagree about that and feel it was noticeably busier. As said above, there literally were more tickets available. 

The Thursday thing is what it is - personally I'd like them to move those sets to a bigger stage, but yes the crowd there was inevitable and not a sign that this year was "busier"

Perhaps things like queues for toilets (due to quite a few less being around the campsites this year it seemed?) and queues for food (perhaps because it was peak between-bands-movement time, although I don't remember quite so many long queues for good) all combined to make it look and feel busier, added of course is the long gap between festivals which will have impacted how people remember it. Plus I do feel there were a lot more people onsite weds and Thurs- I'm guessing just people wanting to get onsite ASAP after 3 years. Not a problem per se but really really did feel busier on those days (WG music aside, as above)

Genuinely interested to see how it'll feel next year - was this year a one off due to its unique nature after the break, or will it being this busy feel normal next year.

Edited by Nobby's Old Boots
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I do think some of the crowd issue is due to poor organisation or stewarding. What really bothered me this year seemed to be the never ending stream of vehicles passing through, down paths and through gates/check points. It was just constant waiting for vehicles or moving out the way which didn't help. 

 

They also really need to sort out re-entry. Took the stuff to the car on Sunday afternoon and came back to Gate C backed up into the campervan site. Someone in front said it took their friends 1.5 hours to get back in. If I already have my wristband why do I need a ticket, re-entry pass and a thorough check before coming back in? Not ashamed to admit we ran down the hill and brushed passed security because I'm not waiting over an hour to get back in to a site I've already queued to get in to once. 

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The Wednesday and Thursday were busier than previously, but that has been gradually changing over the last 20 years or so. It was noticeable how few new people were arriving on Thursday and Friday. 

Maybe that there wasn't the build up of numbers over a couple of days changed perceptions as well. 

There were more tickets sold than previous years, but in relation to the total numbers it was a tiny amount. 

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1 hour ago, robin said:

Don't tell me my experience didn't happen either. The site as a whole didn't feel any busier than normal. The camping areas are a good indicator and with people taking bigger tents than decades ago, but there didn't seem to be tents piled on top of each other as I used to see. 

Unless there was some mass fence jumping that nobody noticed the increase of 10 or 20k people among a population of 200k+ isn't enough to suddenly cause overcrowding everywhere.

More likely a change in people's perception and bad crowd management. 

I reckon it was the extra tickets from the bottle gate fiasco. That happened to a lot of people 

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