Glasontbury - the white wash

[gizmoman]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

like it or not...there's still a lot of discrimination and segregation in british society..I live in a multi cultural area and mostly you see black kids hang round with other black kids, same with asian kids, and same with white kids.

And Glastonbury is probably seen as a whiite thing...whereas Notting Hill carnival is seen as a black thing...there's so much in there, so many reasons, historical, cultural etc etc

Anyway, my missus is Japanese so we're doing our bit.

 

26 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

Yep a very simple concept really. If you see it then you can be it which translates as basically if you see people who look like you doing things you also think you can. If you don’t, you don’t. It might not even be on a conscious level but you look at anything a job, a festival and don’t see anyone who looks like you, you are more likely to believe it’s not for you. Most humans don’t want to stand out. They want to fit in. 

Yep, basic human (and animal) nature, birds of a feather flock together etc., we don't have to look too far to see evidence,

 

efests forum meet, not a non white face in sight, all white middle aged (or heading there), what are you going to do to make it more diverse?  Do you see it as a problem that there are no black/brown people there? I personally don't but I'm not as sensitive to this as most of you seem to be.

[herzzreh]

4 hours ago, Havors said:

That would be very silly to be honest. Because then you are implying that there has to be a perfect balance or something is malignent. Not to mention all the things you aren't taking into account its just not going to make any valid point about anything. 

Each stage have their own bookers. Would you think it unfair if glasto Latino didn't have an equal amount of white female rappers compared to Latino style acts? 

 

I agree, it's silly and that was my whole point about underrepresentation at Glastonbury.

[Havors]

1 minute ago, herzzreh said:

I agree, it's silly and that was my whole point about underrepresentation at Glastonbury.

Ah OK haha fair play 

[Janaka]

The lack of diversity isn’t “embarrassing” as Lenny says. It’s absolutely appalling and needs be levelled up asap.

The only solution is to allow darkies (like me) to obtain a ticket (happy to pay) without the usual internet clusterfuck duress to ensure similar ethnic %ages to outside the fence.

My friends and wife are all happy to black up in solidarity if they can also squire tickets like this.  Thanking you Emily and Michael in advance. 👍

[Janaka]

Sorry I meant 👍🏽

[Furq]

7 hours ago, TiZuff said:

i mean i think having kendrick, kanye, jay z , beyonce, strormzy headline... i dont think you can do much more. people are trying to find a soloution for an issue that isnt there.

They were all announced AFTER the tickets were sold (to mainly white people, it seems).

If the Eavis family want to actively change the demographic, they could announce multiple 'non-traditional' acts before they go on sale.

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, Furq said:

They were all announced AFTER the tickets were sold (to mainly white people, it seems).

If the Eavis family want to actively change the demographic, they could announce multiple 'non-traditional' acts before they go on sale.

They were still selling tickets for 08 after the festival had started. 

[Furq]

1 minute ago, gherkin8r said:

They were still selling tickets for 08 after the festival had started. 

And? Most of the shift away from traditional/guitar headliners has happened since then.

[HalfAnIdiot]

3 minutes ago, Furq said:

And? Most of the shift away from traditional/guitar headliners has happened since then.

Not really. Lots a Bristol sound systems present in the 80's and early 90's. Still a white crowd.

It's a cultural thing. How many black and Asian people do you see at the beach? TBH it's increasing but slowly. 

On the other hand how many white people do you see at 'traditonally' black etc events?

Time to mix it up. If there is one place to do that, you know where it is...

[DeanoL]

6 hours ago, gizmoman said:

See my reply to Simsy,  your assumptions are wrong, for a start you assume Asian birth rates are the same as white, they are not, that in itself could explain the gap in absolute numbers, but that is irrelevant anyway it's the percentages of those disadvantaged kids that do badly according to ethnicity, the numbers are clear, go study it if you wish, the facts don't support the leftist view of the world so they try to ignore them or explain them away. If you want to doubt government statistics that's fine, maybe they have an agenda, but the replies on here from non white attendees don't give any weight to the "disadvantaged and discriminated against" argument.

Jesus Christ, put the goalposts back already! It's a huge leap from "white kids on free school meals are the least likely group to go to university" to

9 hours ago, gizmoman said:

it's a fact white working class males are the least likely to do well in our society

 

[Furq]

24 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Not really. Lots a Bristol sound systems present in the 80's and early 90's. Still a white crowd.

Er, okay, but I'm talking about Glastonbury since 08 - a date plucked out by the poster above.

What I'm saying is, if the Eavis family announced a truly diverse line-up before the tickets went on sale - or even just a bunch of key, non-traditional (for Glastonbury) acts - they'd potentially draw a more-diverse audience.

People have strong perceptions about what the line-up is likely to be each year, and what the crowd make-up will be. Will take a lot to change that (if anyone wants to).

Edited June 15 by Furq

[cloudbusting]

40 minutes ago, Furq said:

They were all announced AFTER the tickets were sold (to mainly white people, it seems).

If the Eavis family want to actively change the demographic, they could announce multiple 'non-traditional' acts before they go on sale.

Why do you think the festival books acts at all? By your logic, they may as well just book 3 days of Butlins singers because the tickets were already sold and there's no need to appeal to anybody.

 

Or maybe, they book acts as a way to influence future sales for future festivals...

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 hour ago, Furq said:

Er, okay, but I'm talking about Glastonbury since 08 - a date plucked out by the poster above.

What I'm saying is, if the Eavis family announced a truly diverse line-up before the tickets went on sale - or even just a bunch of key, non-traditional (for Glastonbury) acts - they'd potentially draw a more-diverse audience.

People have strong perceptions about what the line-up is likely to be each year, and what the crowd make-up will be. Will take a lot to change that (if anyone wants to).

 

It's the Eavis's trainset at the end of the day. Up to them what they do. 

They've got the big calls right so far - oh sh£it, did I just say that 😜😜😜

[gizmoman]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

Jesus Christ, put the goalposts back already! It's a huge leap from "white kids on free school meals are the least likely group to go to university" to

 

You're right, I phrased it badly, I was thinking of the report but clearly overstated the effects, "do well in society" is pretty meaningless, I equated a better education with ongoing better life chances but of course that doesn't necessarily follow, not every degree leads to a good job whatever your ethnicity and there is still a disparity in employment rates between white and non-white (and between various ethnic groups) but the bottom line is these societal differences are not the reason for Bame people avoiding Glastonbury, it's cultural rather than economic.

[Will69]

Just reading about some big US black culture festivals. Essence, the biggest, is held in a huge super dome stadium. The second biggest, Curlfest, is held in inner city park type areas. Brooklyn Hip Hop Festival is held at various venues around Brooklyn. No tents or wellies involved at all as far as I can see. Muddy Glastonbury seems particularly ill suited to this kind of crossover.

Edited June 16 by Will69

[Will69]

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/sep/27/black-campers-burning-man-explain-why

 

[gherkin8r]

7 hours ago, Furq said:

And? Most of the shift away from traditional/guitar headliners has happened since then.

And you said that the announcements for your list were made after the tickets were already sold. Jayz was announced when there were still loads of tickets available and they still didn't sell for months to anyone regardless of their background. So as well as your statement being factually incorrect the announcement of a non traditional act when tickets were available did not have swarms of different demographics taking up those available tickets as you suggested it might, in fact it had swarms of nobody buying them.

[Furq]

48 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

And you said that the announcements for your list were made after the tickets were already sold. Jayz was announced when there were still loads of tickets available and they still didn't sell for months to anyone regardless of their background. So as well as your statement being factually incorrect the announcement of a non traditional act when tickets were available did not have swarms of different demographics taking up those available tickets as you suggested it might, in fact it had swarms of nobody buying them.

So you think organisers have tried everything they can to attract a more-diverse/-representative crowd and it simply didn't work...?

[Furq]

7 hours ago, cloudbusting said:

Or maybe, they book acts as a way to influence future sales for future festivals...

Of course, but that's a slow burn.

If - and it's a big 'if' - Glastonbury truly wants to change and more-accurately reflect British music taste, it needs more to be more upfront with a diverse line-up.

Appreciate some folk don't want that...

[gherkin8r]

4 minutes ago, Furq said:

So you think organisers have tried everything they can to attract a more-diverse/-representative crowd and it simply didn't work...?

I have no idea how you think that's what I'm saying

 

[amfy]

2 hours ago, gherkin8r said:

And you said that the announcements for your list were made after the tickets were already sold. Jayz was announced when there were still loads of tickets available and they still didn't sell for months to anyone regardless of their background. So as well as your statement being factually incorrect the announcement of a non traditional act when tickets were available did not have swarms of different demographics taking up those available tickets as you suggested it might, in fact it had swarms of nobody buying them.

This doesn’t really take into account that the previous 2 Glastonburies had been held in swamp like conditions which was off putting for EVERYONE. In fact, the Jay Z influence may be overstated in terms of its impact on ticket sales in any case taking this into account.  We now have a run of many years of people seeing a sunny Glastonbury on the telly, that looks nowhere near as forbidding, but tickets have never been that easy to get again, in fact, it’s got harder and harder.

Edited June 16 by amfy
Typo

[amfy]

1 hour ago, Furq said:

So you think organisers have tried everything they can to attract a more-diverse/-representative crowd and it simply didn't work...?

I think they’ve done quite a lot and it is working, just very very slowly!

 

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, Furq said:

Of course, but that's a slow burn.

If - and it's a big 'if' - Glastonbury truly wants to change and more-accurately reflect British music taste, it needs more to be more upfront with a diverse line-up.

Appreciate some folk don't want that...

If they're going to try and more accurately reflect British music tastes then they'll have to start booking the cheesy pop acts too.

[gherkin8r]

25 minutes ago, amfy said:

This doesn’t really take into account that the previous 2 Glastonburies had been held in swamp like conditions which was off putting for EVERYONE. In fact, the Jay Z influence may be overstated in terms of its impact on ticket sales in any case taking this into account.  We now have a run of many years of people seeing a sunny Glastonbury on the telly, that looks nowhere near as forbidding, but tickets have never been that easy to get again, in fact, it’s got harder and harder.

Yeah I wasn't trying to imply a causal relationship. Just pointing out that the tickets weren't sold out before the announcement as had been said. And that in this instance the announcement of the greatest living rapper at the time didn't spark mass ticket sales from black would be festival goers. It just shows what a complex, multi-variable situation it is and how pointing to any single factor as the "reason" or "solution" is a fool's errand. There are no solutions, only tradeoffs. And in most cases just ascertaining whether or not there is even a "problem" is difficult let alone trying to solve it.

 

 

[gherkin8r]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

If they're going to try and more accurately reflect British music tastes then they'll have to start booking the cheesy pop acts too.

Correct. At what point does Glastonbury then lose what makes it special in the first place in the quest to be "more representative". Averages are incredibly boring more often than not.