Should Nina Kraviz have been booked for Arcadia?

[Leyrulion]

41 minutes ago, irnkrtn said:

I have been thinking loads about this since reading through the thread. It's really difficult to get tone right written, so I want to make it the clearest thing ever that this is something I have been pondering rather than some form of whataboutery! 

I really don't know how I feel about cultural boycotts of individuals, because I both see the argument that individuals are often bought into the wider defence and promotion of the state, stand in for the state almost. But I also recognise cultural freedom matters, that subversive acts by their nature might not be understood by all audiences, questions on where responsibility lies to speak out all that stuff. Genuinely feel different case by case.

For Kraviz, I think some of the suggested infractions are spurious at best and feel more like genuine ignorance of identity - the USSR sympathies based on posting that famous and powerful photo of the Red Army taking Berlin I mean wow. Even if anyway entirely true, a longing for Communist Russia doesn't in any way mean you support Putin and comes with all manner of cultural and emotional ties that are more complex than RUSSIA BAD. At the same time, it seems like there's enough to say there's sympathy with the actions of the state currently. Still not sure how I feel about the concept as a whole but I do think it's right she isn't playing given the picture painted. 

I wonder how people feel about other artists on site who also might come under calls for a cultural boycott? I have only seen people talking about Kraviz but there are definitely other performers who, for example, might come under BDS as called for by Palestinian civil society or artists who have supported Erdogan. If you are supportive of cultural boycotting, do you think the festival should have a policy here? Is it down to individual stages? 

 

 

For me it's similar to the tolerance paradox. To be tolerant you have to be intolerant of intolerance. 

Similar here. As for other boycotts it's a grim reality that done are more politically acceptable than others.

[stuie]

1 hour ago, irnkrtn said:

I have been thinking loads about this since reading through the thread. It's really difficult to get tone right written, so I want to make it the clearest thing ever that this is something I have been pondering rather than some form of whataboutery! 

I really don't know how I feel about cultural boycotts of individuals, because I both see the argument that individuals are often bought into the wider defence and promotion of the state, stand in for the state almost. But I also recognise cultural freedom matters, that subversive acts by their nature might not be understood by all audiences, questions on where responsibility lies to speak out all that stuff. Genuinely feel different case by case.

For Kraviz, I think some of the suggested infractions are spurious at best and feel more like genuine ignorance of identity - the USSR sympathies based on posting that famous and powerful photo of the Red Army taking Berlin I mean wow. Even if anyway entirely true, a longing for Communist Russia doesn't in any way mean you support Putin and comes with all manner of cultural and emotional ties that are more complex than RUSSIA BAD. At the same time, it seems like there's enough to say there's sympathy with the actions of the state currently. Still not sure how I feel about the concept as a whole but I do think it's right she isn't playing given the picture painted. 

I wonder how people feel about other artists on site who also might come under calls for a cultural boycott? I have only seen people talking about Kraviz but there are definitely other performers who, for example, might come under BDS as called for by Palestinian civil society or artists who have supported Erdogan. If you are supportive of cultural boycotting, do you think the festival should have a policy here? Is it down to individual stages? 

 

 

I think I’ve made up my mind based on what I’ve seen and I used to be a fan of hers.  At this point, Glastonbury, along with other festivals and her label distributor, seem to have made up their minds too. 

[irnkrtn]

9 hours ago, TheDayman said:

I think you'll find the arguments are far from spurious

I said some 🙂

[irnkrtn]

9 hours ago, Simsy said:

IMHO the problem with her posting the pic of the Red Army taking Berlin is that Putin has been saying the Ukrainian gov are Nazis and he invaded to stop the Nazis.

If he hadn't, it could just be interpreted as "I love my country, and Nazis are bad", which is hard to have a problem with. But posting pics of Russia crushing nazis when that's been used as the justification in Ukraine is more problematic.

My understanding was it was some time in the past, rather than recently? Obviously if posted recently then the context is different. 

[irnkrtn]

9 hours ago, Leyrulion said:

For me it's similar to the tolerance paradox. To be tolerant you have to be intolerant of intolerance. 

Similar here. As for other boycotts it's a grim reality that done are more politically acceptable than others.

Yeah I think I agree entirely with you. When someone is actively supporting a regime like Russia, no hesitation. As I said, when it comes to Kraviz I think it's the right decision made for the right reasons. Just not convinced by blanket cultural boycotts not least because it blocks opportunities for organising for change.

[gfa]

Did anyone else not realise Nina did Parklife this weekend? Could she have been changed to TBA to avoid bad press and not really be out or has she confirmed she's out??

[Twiggy553]

Moscow politician gets 7 years for denouncing war

[Bomei]

6 hours ago, Twiggy553 said:

Moscow politician gets 7 years for denouncing war

This is it. I don't blame anyone in Russia for not speaking out. I'd be scared to for sure! Plus, the media control there is so strong that who knows what they'll be being told. I'm sad that she wasn't at glasto, it's exactly the kind of place that should look past borders and how countries act. Glastonbury is a place where people's opinions on things can and should and will be challenged! 

[bobsacamano]

7 hours ago, Bomei said:

This is it. I don't blame anyone in Russia for not speaking out. I'd be scared to for sure! Plus, the media control there is so strong that who knows what they'll be being told. I'm sad that she wasn't at glasto, it's exactly the kind of place that should look past borders and how countries act. Glastonbury is a place where people's opinions on things can and should and will be challenged! 

So you would happily have had white South African artists at Glastonbury in the 80s who didn't denounce apartheid?

There are plenty of Russian artists who have denounced the war, they should be welcomed with open arms, those like Nina who suck on the teat of fascism should be banned forever.

 

[CaledonianGonzo]

10 minutes ago, bobsacamano said:

So you would happily have had white South African artists at Glastonbury in the 80s who didn't denounce apartheid?

There must have been a few. Morrissey was probably in favour of it.

[bobsacamano]

27 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

There must have been a few. Morrissey was probably in favour of it.

I know he's a cnut but if you are going to make an allegation like that surely you need some evidence?

In fact a brief Google search would have shown you that the Smiths last ever show was an Artist's Against Apartheid gig.

[CaledonianGonzo]

3 hours ago, bobsacamano said:

I know he's a cnut but if you are going to make an allegation like that surely you need some evidence?

In fact a brief Google search would have shown you that the Smiths last ever show was an Artist's Against Apartheid gig.

This ain't a court of law my dude. It was an unserious comment with the word 'probably' doing a lot of the heavy lifting. 

[Nicklord]

I know it's been a month but I just saw a small festival organized by Exit by the seaside has both Nina Kraviz and Kalush Orchestra, winners of the Eurovision from Ukraine that are pretty antiwar (obviously) and are on tour to raise funds for the Ukraine 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Nicklord

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

I mean, if she's actively supporting the war and posting tweets that suggest she love's Putin's little froggy head and clearly in favour of the war, all the while kids, disabled people, women, and men, are having their lives destroyed - sometimes in the most humiliating fashion, I think she should be 100% banned.

If she just stayed silent on it and didn't condemn it, then that's a different story, because we shouldn't be playing Thought Police.

On the other hand, how many US bands/artists post tweets about loving the US, all the while they've been bombing the shit out of Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya etc?

I think if Nina has been directly obscene in her support, she should have been cancelled - and I fucking hate cancel culture because it's a slippery slope, but over war crimes, I think it's fair enough - not just a CEO making a joke for example.

Edited August 4, 2022 by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON