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Should Nina Kraviz have been booked for Arcadia?


blutarsky
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3 minutes ago, Rex2 said:

I wonder how many of us here if we were in a position of power would publicly speak out against a leader that has a track record of offing people who do? 

Exhibit A: Pussy Riot

it is possible - some Russians, ordinary people and high profile figures, are making explicit statements condemning Putin and his war. If she chooses not to then that’s fine, it’s a risk management choice possibly. But it’s still a choice and it should mean she is nowhere near Glastonbury. 

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5 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Exhibit A: Pussy Riot

it is possible - some Russians, ordinary people and high profile figures, are making explicit statements condemning Putin and his war. If she chooses not to then that’s fine, it’s a risk management choice possibly. But it’s still a choice and it should mean she is nowhere near Glastonbury. 

I don't understand that train of thought. Why does she have to speak out about it? Why does saying nothing equate to being pro war and pro Putin? Let us not forget the war crimes that the West have committed that nobody spoke out against. If we were to take your approach nobody would be playing Glastonbury.

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2 minutes ago, Dave_c said:

I don't understand that train of thought. Why does she have to speak out about it? Why does saying nothing equate to being pro war and pro Putin? Let us not forget the war crimes that the West have committed that nobody spoke out against. If we were to take your approach nobody would be playing Glastonbury.

Seriously? That’s the counter to my position? 

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I mean she's clearly pro putin and deluded but I'm sure there was plenty of blairite musicians not speaking out about the invasion of Iraq for the same bullshit reasons. Why were they not cancelled? Its the double standards I don't get. 

Now if she'd come out and publicly supported 'this' war then yes I think she should be cancelled 

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14 minutes ago, Rex2 said:

And get music cancelled that others want to see? 

Get a grip man

Like I said, if you feel strongly about it (either way) let them know. 

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25 minutes ago, Rex2 said:

I mean she's clearly pro putin and deluded but I'm sure there was plenty of blairite musicians not speaking out about the invasion of Iraq for the same bullshit reasons. Why were they not cancelled? Its the double standards I don't get. 

Now if she'd come out and publicly supported 'this' war then yes I think she should be cancelled 

The 03-05 bills would have looked very thin if every American and British act that didn’t explicitly speak out against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq got dropped.

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From someone within the techno scene I can tell you that Nina isnt about to be "cancelled", there are simply too many people who know and like her, despite what a small number of people think. You can check she is still being booked and playing festivals without issue.

There are some people mainly on the fringes that want to politicise dance music, they want to cancel anyone who disagrees with their point of view, despite the fact most people are there to party. That was always at the heart of rave culture, the whole eff politics lets dance approach. These are the ones who insist on pronouns and want to charge non-non-binary people more to attend a party. The problem is nobody want to attend their parties, simply because most punters have no interest in these fringe politics. One was proposed where I am with its so called inclusive line up and nobody bought tickets. Its a such small minority but their voices seem to be promoted above anyone else which can make people think thats the norm. It aint.

Bascially Nastia attempted to cancel Nina for this very issue (amongst others, some of the female techno DJs can be quite bitchy towards each other), because she wouldnt agree to put herself and her family in danger, risking 15 years in jail which is the going rate for high profile Russians who speak out. Thats whats currently being threatened. Simply put I wouldnt do it either, and who does it benefit? Protest doesnt work against Putin. So you have to question what else is behind it, removing one of the highest pofile female DJs from a festival line up.....

What I did do however is shut down Nastias daily rants about Nina on Instagram, not only because she was clearly bullying her (other DJs agreed)opening herself up to being sued for libel with some of her comments. Also sent her an email saying as much........if her posts werent against policy then they wouldnt have taken them down which they did. She had a strop about it on Instagram but its better than ending up like Tasha K. 5 million was it?

Even if Nina was pro Russian, so what? Thats not the same as pro war and then again even if she was for whatever reasons other people are allowed their own opinions, which is what so angers certain people. I find this an odd position, these same people tend to think they are tolerant but they are the least tolerant people around. Nina hasnt been using her platform to cheer on Putin. If the war ends it will be because Russians themselves change the regime and thats unlikely to happen if people attempt to cancel anything Russian. You just feed the narrative the regime pushes which is everyone hates Russians then they aint gonna like us either.

If these DJs want to spout politics then fine, toddle off and become a pro politician, because alot of this is just social media fluff mining for likes, no adult really cares what a DJ thinks about complex political issues and franly their fanbases dont either. But if certain people think they can stop people making a living because they have different views then quite a few people will have something to say (and do) about it.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, MEGABOWL said:

The 03-05 bills would have looked very thin if every American and British act that didn’t explicitly speak out against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq got dropped.

BYOB would have gone off though 

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19 minutes ago, KatFiles said:

From someone within the techno scene I can tell you that Nina isnt about to be "cancelled", there are simply too many people who know and like her, despite what a small number of people think. You can check she is still being booked and playing festivals without issue.

There are some people mainly on the fringes that want to politicise dance music, they want to cancel anyone who disagrees with their point of view, despite the fact most people are there to party. That was always at the heart of rave culture, the whole eff politics lets dance approach. These are the ones who insist on pronouns and want to charge non-non-binary people more to attend a party. The problem is nobody want to attend their parties, simply because most punters have no interest in these fringe politics. One was proposed where I am with its so called inclusive line up and nobody bought tickets. Its a such small minority but their voices seem to be promoted above anyone else which can make people think thats the norm. It aint.

Bascially Nastia attempted to cancel Nina for this very issue (amongst others, some of the female techno DJs can be quite bitchy towards each other), because she wouldnt agree to put herself and her family in danger, risking 15 years in jail which is the going rate for high profile Russians who speak out. Thats whats currently being threatened. Simply put I wouldnt do it either, and who does it benefit? Protest doesnt work against Putin. So you have to question what else is behind it, removing one of the highest pofile female DJs from a festival line up.....

What I did do however is shut down Nastias daily rants about Nina on Instagram, not only because she was clearly bullying her (other DJs agreed)opening herself up to being sued for libel with some of her comments. Also sent her an email saying as much........if her posts werent against policy then they wouldnt have taken them down which they did. She had a strop about it on Instagram but its better than ending up like Tasha K. 5 million was it?

Even if Nina was pro Russian, so what? Thats not the same as pro war and then again even if she was for whatever reasons other people are allowed their own opinions, which is what so angers certain people. I find this an odd position, these same people tend to think they are tolerant but they are the least tolerant people around. Nina hasnt been using her platform to cheer on Putin. If the war ends it will be because Russians themselves change the regime and thats unlikely to happen if people attempt to cancel anything Russian. You just feed the narrative the regime pushes which is everyone hates Russians then they aint gonna like us either.

If these DJs want to spout politics then fine, toddle off and become a pro politician, because alot of this is just social media fluff mining for likes, no adult really cares what a DJ thinks about complex political issues and franly their fanbases dont either. But if certain people think they can stop people making a living because they have different views then quite a few people will have something to say (and do) about it.

 

 

As a Russian (who joined efestivals 54 minutes ago, to post that comment) perhaps you might have a slightly prejudiced view, no? 

 

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18 minutes ago, KatFiles said:

There are some people mainly on the fringes that want to politicise dance music, they want to cancel anyone who disagrees with their point of view, despite the fact most people are there to party. That was always at the heart of rave culture, the whole eff politics lets dance approach.

There's literally decades of history of house and techno music being intertwined with politics - it's impossible to separate them.  I think you should have a read up on the history of these movements. 

 

23 minutes ago, KatFiles said:

These are the ones who insist on pronouns and want to charge non-non-binary people more to attend a party. The problem is nobody want to attend their parties, simply because most punters have no interest in these fringe politics.

Sorry... what? 

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1 hour ago, Dave_c said:

I don't understand that train of thought. Why does she have to speak out about it? Why does saying nothing equate to being pro war and pro Putin? 

MLK summed it up quite well

"The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people." "There comes a time when silence is betrayal".

 

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21 minutes ago, anditmakesmesmile said:

As a Russian (who joined efestivals 54 minutes ago, to post that comment) perhaps you might have a slightly prejudiced view, no? 

sure because anyone who disagrees with you has to be Russian lol been a UK based techno DJ since the 90s, quite a poor attempt mate

 

22 minutes ago, anditmakesmesmile said:

As a Russian (who joined efestivals 54 minutes ago, to post that comment) perhaps you might have a slightly prejudiced view, no? 

 

 

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I think it’s right and proper to lionise and praise those who speak out against the war, but it’s absolutely wrong to condemn those who don’t make a public pronouncement.
 

That’s a general rule, but it goes double at the moment, if you’ve got family in Russia

We all like to think we’d be the heroes of the resistance, we all like to think we’d be the protagonist  of the film/video game. Truth is, it takes massive massive cojones to stand up and do that, extraordinary bravery. The vast majority of people, including virtually all of us, would keep our heads down and not say anything in public whilst wishing the whole fucking thing would end. You know the balls it takes to go on a protest demo in Russia? I know plenty of people who’ve been nicked, lost jobs, blacklisted etc for doing exactly that. 
 

Like I say, tell yourself you’d be Snake Pilsen, John McClane, Spartacus. Truth is, most of us are the bespectacled shopkeeper who turns off the lights and sticks up the ‘closed’ sign and scurry home

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22 minutes ago, stuie said:

There's literally decades of history of house and techno music being intertwined with politics - it's impossible to separate them.  I think you should have a read up on the history of these movements. 

 

Sorry... what? 

Its in English I am sure you understood, but then again maybe your not in the loop at the current goings on in the techno scene so maybe check up on RA.

Politics? No. Thats what sociologists have attempted to force onto the scene, if people genuinely believe that people listening to instrumental music, on drugs and looking to hook up are all paid up members of political parties with strong views then you havent been to a recent event. My first dance music purchase was in the 80s when was yours?

If anything it was tories who ran the biggest events, those cheeky money makers that they are.

Theres very few acts that have been political and the movement which were caused so much damage to the scenes they were abandoned.

So where does it end? Should every festival goer and artist be assessed for their political views and only those who agree with yours allowed in? That would be a very small party. Funny how the ones who are so called attempting to protest against the Russian regime have the same policies.

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2 minutes ago, Mardy said:

I think it’s right and proper to lionise and praise those who speak out against the war, but it’s absolutely wrong to condemn those who don’t make a public pronouncement.
 

That’s a general rule, but it goes double at the moment, if you’ve got family in Russia

We all like to think we’d be the heroes of the resistance, we all like to think we’d be the protagonist  of the film/video game. Truth is, it takes massive massive cojones to stand up and do that, extraordinary bravery. The vast majority of people, including virtually all of us, would keep our heads down and not say anything in public whilst wishing the whole fucking thing would end. You know the balls it takes to go on a protest demo in Russia? I know plenty of people who’ve been nicked, lost jobs, blacklisted etc for doing exactly that. 
 

Like I say, tell yourself you’d be Snake Pilsen, John McClane, Spartacus. Truth is, most of us are the bespectacled shopkeeper who turns off the lights and sticks up the ‘closed’ sign and scurry home

Yep, its very "stunning and brave" when you dont actually live under the threat of 15 years in a Gulag.

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19 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

MLK summed it up quite well

"The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people." "There comes a time when silence is betrayal".

 

This is true but it doesn't apply in every situation. Sometimes the oppression of the bad people is so overwhelming that speaking out will not help.

It's all well and good putting yourself at risk but putting loved ones at risk too is another matter

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7 minutes ago, Mardy said:

I think it’s right and proper to lionise and praise those who speak out against the war, but it’s absolutely wrong to condemn those who don’t make a public pronouncement.
 

That’s a general rule, but it goes double at the moment, if you’ve got family in Russia

We all like to think we’d be the heroes of the resistance, we all like to think we’d be the protagonist  of the film/video game. Truth is, it takes massive massive cojones to stand up and do that, extraordinary bravery. The vast majority of people, including virtually all of us, would keep our heads down and not say anything in public whilst wishing the whole fucking thing would end. You know the balls it takes to go on a protest demo in Russia? I know plenty of people who’ve been nicked, lost jobs, blacklisted etc for doing exactly that. 
 

Like I say, tell yourself you’d be Snake Pilsen, John McClane, Spartacus. Truth is, most of us are the bespectacled shopkeeper who turns off the lights and sticks up the ‘closed’ sign and scurry home

Let's be honest most of y'all would be Marks. I'm pretty sure I'd be a Jeremy though 

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I can see some validity in the whole boycott of Russian artists/sportspeople/culture kind of argument. I don’t really agree with it, i think, although I’m ready to be convinced,  but at least it’s a consistent position.  

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10 minutes ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

This is true but it doesn't apply in every situation. Sometimes the oppression of the bad people is so overwhelming that speaking out will not help.

It's all well and good putting yourself at risk but putting loved ones at risk too is another matter

 

8 minutes ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

Let's be honest most of y'all would be Marks. I'm pretty sure I'd be a Jeremy though 

Oh I'd definitely be a Mark but we should all endeavour to be more like Jeremy. You'd also like to hope people with some public profile and influence would be more like Jeremy.

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6 minutes ago, Mardy said:

I can see some validity in the whole boycott of Russian artists/sportspeople/culture kind of argument. I don’t really agree with it, i think, although I’m ready to be convinced,  but at least it’s a consistent position.  

I dont think its valid if it hurts people that arent part of the regime or arent supporting it of their own free will, which is another issue. If you lived there under the same conditions and that was the information you were fed, do you think its plausable that you would have a different view than them?

I find this binary Russia bad but us good narrative worse than simplistic and ultimately casuses more harm than good.

 

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1 minute ago, KatFiles said:

If you lived there under the same conditions and that was the information you were fed, do you think its plausable that you would have a different view than them?

 

Yeah, so I’ve just left Russia after living there for 17 years. I reckon I’m qualified to have an opinion on this. 

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26 minutes ago, KatFiles said:

Its in English I am sure you understood, but then again maybe your not in the loop at the current goings on in the techno scene so maybe check up on RA.

Politics? No. Thats what sociologists have attempted to force onto the scene, if people genuinely believe that people listening to instrumental music, on drugs and looking to hook up are all paid up members of political parties with strong views then you havent been to a recent event. My first dance music purchase was in the 80s when was yours?

If anything it was tories who ran the biggest events, those cheeky money makers that they are.

Theres very few acts that have been political and the movement which were caused so much damage to the scenes they were abandoned.

So where does it end? Should every festival goer and artist be assessed for their political views and only those who agree with yours allowed in? That would be a very small party. Funny how the ones who are so called attempting to protest against the Russian regime have the same policies.

Well, I now feel historically enlightened.  I’m so glad you joined. 

Silly me for thinking disco, house and techno were created by politically and socially oppressed communities.  I should have known it wasn’t black and gay people… it was the bloody tories again! 

 

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