Should Nina Kraviz have been booked for Arcadia?

[Gilgamesh69]

6 minutes ago, Tommy Dickfingers said:

I also recall she posted a picture of a Soviet Flag being hiked up in Berlin during WW2 semi recently and there was a kick off over that.

What a monster, she needs to be cancelled! 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Gilgamesh69

[TheDayman]

There's a viewpoint on here that's not too dissimilar to the type that lead to Asian people being attacked as a result of covid.

There's another way to look at this too... why is this all being directed at Nina when Arcadia - or Glastonbury Festival - are the people paying her to be here? 

If people have such strong views, I would have thought they should also be directed towards the bookers. Maybe even more so?

[Florian Saucer Attack]

8 minutes ago, Tommy Dickfingers said:

I also recall she posted a picture of a Soviet Flag being hiked up in Berlin during WW2 semi recently and there was a kick off over that.

The Russian's are very proud that they defeated the Nazi's. They have a huge parade in Moscow every year on Victory day.

To me, this doesn't fall under the category of questionable politics. Maybe if I was a Nazi it would but I'm not

[TheDayman]

52 minutes ago, gfa said:

1. Nothing wrong with being Pro-Russia, millions of people call it home that aren't psychopaths.

Absolutely agree (I think my other comment clarifies this).

Editing my original comment so that it's more clear 🙂

[gfa]

47 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Nina Kraviz is pro-Putin? Thing is, Russia these days doesn't sound like the kind of place where you can easily be anti-Putin without getting in some trouble, especially in wartime.

Sidenote: makes me roll my eyes a little bit how some people think of  Russians are these dim-witted sheep that believe all their government's lies, as if our countries aren't also full of idiots that easily fall for propaganda. I'm noticing more and more anti-Russian sentiment these days; other day I was with some friends and I mentioned that I would love to visit Russia someday - cue me getting weird looks as if I had just said something horrible.

She's said she is pro-putin numerous times in the past - maybe she isn't anymore, who knows.

2 minutes ago, TASHMA BWABWE said:

There appear to be others who believe in a complete cultural boycott, an extreme version of the BDS movement (and perhaps they also think all Jewish Israelis should be banned from playing at Glastonbury for associated reasons, but I'm not sure where they would draw the line).

Nobody here is arguing for a cultural boycott that i've seen.

[TheDayman]

Just now, gfa said:

Nobody here is arguing for a cultural boycott that i've seen.

I think @Blisterpack might disagree with you on that!

[Florian Saucer Attack]

2 minutes ago, TASHMA BWABWE said:

I'm sure they do.

There appear to be others who believe in a complete cultural boycott, an extreme version of the BDS movement (and perhaps they also think all Jewish Israelis should be banned from playing at Glastonbury for associated reasons, but I'm not sure where they would draw the line).

I don't support those kind of sweeping measures against peoples because they seem misaligned with our values in this country for this isn't, ironically, the Russia of old, or the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

 

Exactly and if you are going to ban Israelis' then we have to ban American's and Brits too.

America and Britain are supplying the weapons that are destroying Yemen so all artists from those countries should be banned 

[Gilgamesh69]

This song is cute

[gigpusher]

7 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

There's a viewpoint on here that's not too dissimilar to the type that lead to Asian people being attacked as a result of covid.

There's another way to look at this too... why is this all being directed at Nina when Arcadia - or Glastonbury Festival - are the people paying her to be here? 

If people have such strong views, I would have thought they should also be directed towards the bookers. Maybe even more so?

Oh yes she's probably taking money where she can at the moment but I personally think the festival should have been more sensitive to it. 

[MaxPower]

2 minutes ago, gfa said:

She's said she is pro-putin numerous times in the past - maybe she isn't anymore, who knows.

Nobody here is arguing for a cultural boycott that i've seen.

@Blisterpack has multiple times. 

[gfa]

8 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

I think @Blisterpack might disagree with you on that!

Oh sorry, I didn't see that post at the bottom of the first page.

When I look at it from the view that by paying Nina Kraviz (who pays tax in Russia I presume), our festival tickets are funding Putin. Its quite hard to look past that and links to international companies pulling out of Russia etc

Edited April 28, 2022 by gfa

[shuttlep]

1. Didn't know she was Russian

2. I am not sure / don't really care what her thoughts are on the war 

3. If athletes are not allowed to run / swim  or footballers allowed to play, why should music be any different. I know technically she is not  doing it for Russia like the sports people are, but it is their job and they can't do it.

4. I don't thinking coming to the festival and playing will make any difference to what ever she thinks.  Glastonbury is massive for us, to her it will be another job.

 

[Florian Saucer Attack]

8 minutes ago, shuttlep said:

4. I don't thinking coming to the festival and playing will make any difference to what ever she thinks.  Glastonbury is massive for us, to her it will be another job.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's likely her opinions on the war and Putin will change because of Glastonbury but they are more likely too than if she is shunned by every venue and festival outside of Russia, which might make her double down on her opinions.

This is all under the assumption that she is pro-war and pro-Putin because the people on here making these allegations and that she has questionable political beliefs are not providing any real evidence 

[Bucketsquad]

24 minutes ago, shuttlep said:

1. Didn't know she was Russian

2. I am not sure / don't really care what her thoughts are on the war 

3. If athletes are not allowed to run / swim  or footballers allowed to play, why should music be any different. I know technically she is not  doing it for Russia like the sports people are, but it is their job and they can't do it.

4. I don't thinking coming to the festival and playing will make any difference to what ever she thinks.  Glastonbury is massive for us, to her it will be another job.

 

I think you make a very good point here, if people on here agree with athletes etc being banned from playing and completing then you have to agree that she should not be playing. 

 

At first I thought she should play because she's a DJ not someone linked to the regime but after reading the argument each way and seeing some of the stuff she's said and the criticism from fellow DJ's (who will know the situation a lot better than we will) I've changed my mind and think she shouldn't be getting plaid to play, especially getting paid to play the kind of festival Glastonbury is.

[GmasterWomble]

All a bit storm in a teacup this.

She hasn't declared she's pro war nor does anyone in this thread know what the ramifications of a Russian citizen publicly denouncing a dictator could mean for herself, her family or friends back home.

 

If you enjoy her music go see her, if you don't then don't it's as simple as that

Edited April 28, 2022 by GmasterWomble

[henry bear]

43 minutes ago, shuttlep said:

3. If athletes are not allowed to run / swim  or footballers allowed to play, why should music be any different. I know technically she is not  doing it for Russia like the sports people are, but it is their job and they can't do it.

Agree totally with this. I like the stance most other countries have towards Russia - not involve them at all. Cancel them.
This should include performers too. Eventually, perhaps, more and more ordinary Russians will wonder why they’re being boycotted by everyone and question the official Russian stance.

[Junglist1981]

It's a difficult one but I think it's worth considering what a Ukrainian might say about it. How far should we go in offering support? It goes without saying that most Ukrainians now deeply despise the Russian state, and many will harbour deep distrust and distain for the Russian people. 

I definitely agree that cultural boycotts are problematic, but again you have to consider who's fault all of this is. Blame is laid solely at the feet of the one man who quite intentionally stirred all of this up. He's playing by a completely different set of rules, far more suited to days of empire gone by.

I'm firmly of the view that the majority of human beings are good people once you get to know them, but we are all too easily mislead and riled up. So given the tidal wave of outrageous lies and misinformation from Russia I think it's valid that we question how (culturally) we might be playing into their mind games, and where we might be susceptible to them. Perhaps it's best to avoid it all for a while 🤷‍♂️

[FatAmmy]

Hurting regular people in hopes they will turn around and hurt putin is cruel and doesn't seem very likely to accomplish anything

[gfa]

12 minutes ago, GmasterWomble said:

If you enjoy her music go see her, if you don't then don't it's as simple as that

My ticket is paying for a russian taxpayer who has been pro-putin in the past and probably still is. I think that's fair reason to be annoyed.

[henry bear]

5 minutes ago, TASHMA BWABWE said:

Banning footballers impacts on ordinary Russians. Preventing self-employed Russians from earning a living outside of their country or performing is ridiculous as it only affects that individual. Banning tennis players from Wimbledon has, rightly imo, attracted ridicule from the international community, but is somewhat understandable as it has a global audience. Cancelling ordinary Russians working outside their country is truly stupid and discriminatory, and only serves Putin's agenda, imo.

Is she any more ‘ordinary’ than a tennis player? She has a considerable following.

[GmasterWomble]

3 minutes ago, gfa said:

My ticket is paying for a russian taxpayer who has been pro-putin in the past and probably still is. I think that's fair reason to be annoyed.

The ticket is paying for a Russian citizen, you don't necessarily know if she's a Russian taxpayer (or if she pays tax), nor do you know whether she's still pro-putin as she hasn't come out and declared anything since the war nor does she have to for reasons in my previous post.

If it annoys you that much you can always ask for a refund for your ticket to avoid any doubt? 

[mcshed]

If people are interested in a more general way about the clash between an artist and the power of the state I would heartily recommend The Noise of Time by Julian Barnes. It's a fictionalised biography of Dmitri Shostakovich and focuses on his relation with the Russian state, how far he was prepared to humiliate himself publicly to protect himself and his family.

I'm not suggesting that Nina Kravitz is in quite the same position but if anyone is enjoying this debate then it's a fantastic read that deals with these ideas.

[gfa]

3 minutes ago, GmasterWomble said:

The ticket is paying for a Russian citizen, you don't necessarily know if she's a Russian taxpayer (or if she pays tax), nor do you know whether she's still pro-putin as she hasn't come out and declared anything since the war nor does she have to for reasons in my previous post.

If it annoys you that much you can always ask for a refund for your ticket to avoid any doubt? 

Theres assumptions on both sides of this argument - although unless i'm missing something there is no reason why she wouldn't pay tax, Russian or elsewhere? Regardless of her views if she pays russian tax she's still funding putin - which is the same reason why international companies have all boycotted Russia

Not even going to bother replying to the second part.

[Mark_safc]

Yes 100% she should be booked. Her political views should not be taken into account at all. 

World politics are very complicated and in the west we only hear / see the propaganda churned out by our media. Couldn't give a toss whether she is a Putin supporter or not...she is a talented DJ and no doubt her set at Arcadia will be great.

[FatAmmy]

If any artists are German taxpayers, they're funding putin via the purchase of Russian oil....how far we wanna take this?