"Big Stage" sub vs smaller headline

[mjfiddy]

After all the excitement of Friday and the impending months of trying to fix the jigsaw of stages, this may have been covered before but always interests me in the 'best slots'.

As a punter would you rather have your top bands to sub either El Pointo of the Other, or headline a smaller JP or Park stage? As a punter I would probably always rather see a favourite band headline a smaller than even sub one of the big two, the atmosphere of everyone being there for the last act of the day, and actually wanting to be there rather than 'getting a good spot' for the headliner after or just there because it's the pyramid stage.

As the band what's the slot on a bigger stage where you would want to actually headline a smaller... obviously exposure and financials (absolutely no idea about these) would play a big part. - 3rd down... 4th down, where's that point of diminishing returns, is there a point?

I expect the two answers are probably different!

[Guy Incognito]

Just now, mjfiddy said:

As a punter would you rather have your top bands to sub either El Pointo of the Other, or headline a smaller JP or Park stage?

Headline JP or Park. No doubt about it. 

This year is a slight exception though as the Pyramid headliners are so strong. I've only seen 3 Pyramid headliners in 4 Glastonburys but reckon I'll see two this year. 

[Hugh Jass II]

Crowds and vibe will always be better for a headline set.

[dentalplan]

Depends on the act. Some can entertain a big crowd waiting for someone else, some you’d rather a (mostly) focused experience.

Plus obviously if it’s, say, Hot Chip or The Chemical Brothers where you go in search of a climactic party then headlining the stage is preferable.

[Matt42]

El pointo I need big. I find that when they shoehorn acts in there for the chin strokers it falls on its arse. Much much much rather see a smaller act on a smaller stage. Pyramid stage is open to chatters and it can really really kill the experience.

One of my favourite bands is the war on drugs and I can’t think of anything worse than seeing them on the pyramid. I reckon the crowd would be horrendous. 

Pyramid is designed for the big acts everyone knows. Big crowds. Big tunes. Big vibe.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Matt42

[chazwwe]

18 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

El pointo I need big. I find that when they shoehorn acts in there for the chin strokers it falls on its arse. Much much much rather see a smaller act on a smaller stage. Pyramid stage is open to chatters and it can really really kill the experience.

One of my favourite bands is the war on drugs and I can’t think of anything worse than seeing them on the pyramid. I reckon the crowd would be horrendous. 

Pyramid is designed for the big acts everyone knows. Big crowds. Big tunes. Big vibe.

This was my issue with The National on in-between Katy Perry and Foo Fighters. 

[nikkic]

16 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

El pointo I need big. I find that when they shoehorn acts in there for the chin strokers it falls on its arse. Much much much rather see a smaller act on a smaller stage. Pyramid stage is open to chatters and it can really really kill the experience.

One of my favourite bands is the war on drugs and I can’t think of anything worse than seeing them on the pyramid. I reckon the crowd would be horrendous. 

Pyramid is designed for the big acts everyone knows. Big crowds. Big tunes. Big vibe.

Agree with this. 

You can imagine someone like Arlo Parks being given a low Pyramid slot and it falling flat, where as if she were higher up The Park it would probably get a better reception. 

To answer the OP, it totally depends who it is, there's acts on the bill I want to see, but I probably won't see them if they headline a stage as I'm 99% sure I'll be at Macca and 100% I'll be at Kendrick. 

[gigpusher]

Generally speaking you will always be better off with a smaller audience that is more dedicated to the artist who is playing. It's why an artist pulling off the big stage is a magical thing because it's pretty hard to achieve. 

[Matt42]

The problem is if there are punters who don’t explore much or just want to park somewhere, they head to the pyramid. If they don’t know the act they will chat.

It’s a tough crowd if you haven’t got the pull to set that field on fire.

[cdm22]

Headline a smaller stage if only because they get a longer set if nothing else.

[gfa]

1 hour ago, mjfiddy said:

After all the excitement of Friday and the impending months of trying to fix the jigsaw of stages, this may have been covered before but always interests me in the 'best slots'.

As a punter would you rather have your top bands to sub either El Pointo of the Other, or headline a smaller JP or Park stage? As a punter I would probably always rather see a favourite band headline a smaller than even sub one of the big two, the atmosphere of everyone being there for the last act of the day, and actually wanting to be there rather than 'getting a good spot' for the headliner after or just there because it's the pyramid stage.

As the band what's the slot on a bigger stage where you would want to actually headline a smaller... obviously exposure and financials (absolutely no idea about these) would play a big part. - 3rd down... 4th down, where's that point of diminishing returns, is there a point?

I expect the two answers are probably different!

I think the main thing is being a sub works out a lot better clash wise. Chances are theres 3 headline acts i want to see at headline time, so if one of them moves to a sub slot I can see 2 of the headline acts I like almost.

Definitely depends on if they suit it though, some acts would fall flat completely on Other/Pyramid that headline Park/WH/JP but others could definitely do it.

[nikkic]

3 minutes ago, Ddiamondd said:

2011 was particularly bad, come to think of it. Pendulum, U2, Morrissey, Wu-Tang Clan, Paul Simon, Tame Impala and B.B. King all stacked it to some degree. And only two of them can blame the weather.

Hard disagree on this one, was a complete vibe from start to finish!

[Hugh Jass II]

11 minutes ago, nikkic said:

Hard disagree on this one, was a complete vibe from start to finish!

Aye, I thought Wu Tang were good too.

[chazwwe]

44 minutes ago, Ddiamondd said:

I've often found golden hour/sundown on the Other to be the magic slot.

Hot Chip nailed it in 2008 and 2010. They were superb headlining the WH in 2015 too, but at their absolute peak popularity they smashed it.

Interpol, for specialist gloom merchants, were paradoxically a bit flat headlining the JP. But they stepped up to the plate beautifully here. You get a real sense of occasion.

(That's where I'm expecting Glass Animals/Sam Fender to have their big moments this year, too)

Sam Fender will have the biggest crowd thats not a headliner/pyramid stage slot and it'll be something used for a long while to come. 

I think it comes to the discussion of what people play as well. If bands are going into it with a new album, that might of not hit the mark as they were expecting and play 70% of their set from it, then its not gonna go down well with your general punter. Play a 'hits' set with your singles from most recent album and you're more than good to go on the Pyramid. 

I still look at The XX's set as a perfect example, 5 songs from the new album, with 3 of them being released as singles. Opening with one of their bigger songs (intro/crystallised) closing with a massive party vibe with your current biggest single. 

[Matt42]

9 minutes ago, chazwwe said:

Sam Fender will have the biggest crowd thats not a headliner/pyramid stage slot and it'll be something used for a long while to come. 

I think it comes to the discussion of what people play as well. If bands are going into it with a new album, that might of not hit the mark as they were expecting and play 70% of their set from it, then its not gonna go down well with your general punter. Play a 'hits' set with your singles from most recent album and you're more than good to go on the Pyramid. 

I still look at The XX's set as a perfect example, 5 songs from the new album, with 3 of them being released as singles. Opening with one of their bigger songs (intro/crystallised) closing with a massive party vibe with your current biggest single. 

They absolutely nailed that slot (the XX) because they weaved the new songs in very well, and it helped a lot that the new songs are pretty much pyramid ready. I’m pretty sure the album had been out for some time by then as well? Or am I misremembering?

[chazwwe]

1 minute ago, Ddiamondd said:

Yeah, that XX sub slot is the gold standard. Pitch-perfect.

Shame for Beck, who did everything right on paper by coming out swinging with big hits and cover medleys, but just had the unenviable task of warming up Coldplay casuals.

Wasn't at Beck, was over at PJ Harvey who was fantastic but it was a small crowd. 

I think this years will be Noel G. Some big sing a-longs with a cracking backing band with most people in the front section staying for McCartney so will be up for it too. 

I think some of the best sub headlienrs are when it goes nicely into the headliner as most people in the crowd are ready and knowing they're not moving for a bit. Biffy Clyro did a great set, but there were a lot of people waiting for Ed to come on which gave the atmosphere down the front a weird vibe of Biffy fans trying to find areas to party, while Sheeran fans watching on in disgust. I remember a small mosh broke out during Living is a Problem and a mum with 2 daughters were shouting at people to calm down. (they were a good few people away)

[chazwwe]

Just now, Matt42 said:

They absolutely nailed that slot (the XX) because they weaved the new songs in very well, and it helped a lot that the new songs are pretty much pyramid ready. I’m pretty sure the album had been out for some time by then as well? Or am I misremembering?

Mid January, so yeah had been out for pretty much 5 months, they're also a band that respects the place. Watching a band move up from stage to stage, with each album and the band professing their love for the festival makes it that much more enjoyable.

Getting a story about 'my first time at Glastonbury I did all these crazy things and you guys are gonna have the best time' followed by opening lines/chords/notes of the big single is a moment that can't be recreated. 

[nikkic]

22 minutes ago, Ddiamondd said:

Yeah, that XX sub slot is the gold standard. Pitch-perfect.
 

15 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

They absolutely nailed that slot (the XX) because they weaved the new songs in very well, and it helped a lot that the new songs are pretty much pyramid ready. I’m pretty sure the album had been out for some time by then as well? Or am I misremembering?

 

Agreed, it's the best sub slot I've seen, perfect from start to finish. 

[Bradders]

I’m still annoyed the crowd ruined Beck, he couldn’t have done anything better.

[Bigjamiewales]

35 minutes ago, chazwwe said:

Wasn't at Beck, was over at PJ Harvey who was fantastic but it was a small crowd. 

I think this years will be Noel G. Some big sing a-longs with a cracking backing band with most people in the front section staying for McCartney so will be up for it too. 

I think some of the best sub headlienrs are when it goes nicely into the headliner as most people in the crowd are ready and knowing they're not moving for a bit. Biffy Clyro did a great set, but there were a lot of people waiting for Ed to come on which gave the atmosphere down the front a weird vibe of Biffy fans trying to find areas to party, while Sheeran fans watching on in disgust. I remember a small mosh broke out during Living is a Problem and a mum with 2 daughters were shouting at people to calm down. (they were a good few people away

You should of seen it when everyone was all dolled up for Beyonce, and a few thousand people started moshing to pendulum 🤣

[Hugh Jass II]

Yeah Beck certainly deserved better.

That said it wasn't too bad where I was and I ended up having a great time to him.

[Ayrshire Chris]

39 minutes ago, Bradders said:

I’m still annoyed the crowd ruined Beck, he couldn’t have done anything better.

Spot on, we were quite near the back and despite the rain we were really wanting to see him, one of our must sees, and it was kinda spoilt by the crowd around us not interested in seeing him,  talking and generally being arses. 

[gfa]

1 hour ago, Bigjamiewales said:

You should of seen it when everyone was all dolled up for Beyonce, and a few thousand people started moshing to pendulum 🤣

Speaking of, would like to see Pendulum booked. Not sure where they would play but they are in Russia then Ukraine the week before and Finland after. So probably just Finland

[Matt42]

I know it’s not even their song but loud places being played across the pyramid field was straight up one of the best tunes I’ve heard in that crowd.

I was running through because I had to go and catch the beginning of Lorde before running back for Radiohead again!

Spent that Friday night 2017 running around the place before Radiohead El pointo.

[whitehorses]

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Spot on, we were quite near the back and despite the rain we were really wanting to see him, one of our must sees, and it was kinda spoilt by the crowd around us not interested in seeing him,  talking and generally being arses. 

We were near-ish the back (but right by a stack) too. Was just really quiet and lifeless - not sure if the crowd’s fault or not. I was really looking forward to Beck, but alas. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by whitehorses