Glastonbury anti vax nutters

[tarw]

1 minute ago, bamber said:

It is tragic that people end up hateing friends and family over this. Tragic. I try not go there, I love these people, but like I said, it is exhausting fighting like this.

If you can manage to find out their objections to it and remove them one by one slowly over a period of time you might have success.  challenging them and making it a “fight” will only make them dig in to their positions.

[tarw]

1 minute ago, bamber said:

I do listen to people, they are making demonstrably false claims though. I'm not generalising, but recounting my personal experiences with this amongst people I've known all my life.

I know we’ve had some nutters like this at work but managed to slowly persuade them.

[bamber]

13 minutes ago, tarw said:

I know we’ve had some nutters like this at work but managed to slowly persuade them.

I work at a University so there is no anti-vax sentiment there. It is a real lifeline being amongst rational thinkers. My friends (not all of themBTW) who have gravitated towards all this are angry and up for fight it seems. They belive that we, scientifically minded people, are the ones who have been brainwashed. "You've been lied to" is a frequent refrain l hear.

Edited August 27, 2021 by bamber

[Zoo Music Girl]

Considering the festival have booked Van Morrison to play the Abbey it's hard to imagine them caring about what's said in the green/healing fields... there's always been some pretty wacky stuff there anyway. Still like going for a wander and a massage though.

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, oneeye said:

Totnes is no surprise, full of them, fruit loops the lot of 'em 😄, though it is a great place to take a bimble round.

These photos capture the Totnes vibe nicely, not a bad record store mind you and a good saturday food market.

I used to live just outside Totnes. Anywhere that thinks a full English brekkie should have garlic mushrooms, shouldn't be trusted!

[BlackZeppelin]

It's not a straightforward situation and either camp who expresses complete certainty about Pro or Anti Vax are mistaking ideology for reason.

I've been vaccinated but I work in a community that is sceptical about vaccine safety. I hear the arguments all the time. Simply considering them as nutters or paranoid doesn't help. I think taking the heat out of the polarity usually helps, by admitting that no-one holds absolute certainty with regard to vaccine safety but then go through the Bayesian process of navigating via probability, this usually opens their minds to considering vaccination. 

High vaccine safety over the first 9 months of use, high protection from death and hospitalisation are well documented.  But agree that we are dealing with mRNA tech and we don't know exactlywhat happens beyond 12 months let alone 3-10 years.(We just don't!)

So there is some understandable grounds for concern but is outweighed by the known benefits.

Unless they are card carrying QANON anti vaxxers, that usually eases up the reflex opposition.

[MEGABOWL]

12 hours ago, FloorFiller said:

Hoping/guessing the festival will put a firm foot down against any of this shite being prevalent on site next year, like if any of it is even hinted at by a stall/tent in the Greenfields then it’s a ‘pack your bags and kindly fuck off’ thing. I know a lot of people may be against any kind of cEnSoRsHiP or whatever, but that kind of stuff having any kind of voice at the festival would be awful. 

It is censorship

 

8 hours ago, tarw said:

Definitely.

I think that this is turning into one of most un-Glastonbury threads.  Full of generalisations.  Treat people as people not stereotypical groups.

Listen to people, not decide what their views are based on your prejudices.

100% agree. Threatening to kick people out of the festival for their views (however wrong they may be) is profoundly depressing. Maybe the festival really isn’t what it used to be.

[eFestivals]

21 minutes ago, BlackZeppelin said:

It's not a straightforward situation and either camp who expresses complete certainty about Pro or Anti Vax are mistaking ideology for reason.

I've been vaccinated but I work in a community that is sceptical about vaccine safety. I hear the arguments all the time. Simply considering them as nutters or paranoid doesn't help. I think taking the heat out of the polarity usually helps, by admitting that no-one holds absolute certainty with regard to vaccine safety but then go through the Bayesian process of navigating via probability, this usually opens their minds to considering vaccination. 

High vaccine safety over the first 9 months of use, high protection from death and hospitalisation are well documented.  But agree that we are dealing with mRNA tech and we don't know exactlywhat happens beyond 12 months let alone 3-10 years.(We just don't!)

So there is some understandable grounds for concern but is outweighed by the known benefits.

Unless they are card carrying QANON anti vaxxers, that usually eases up the reflex opposition.

There's greater risks from covid than from vaccines. 

[zahidf]

34 minutes ago, BlackZeppelin said:

It's not a straightforward situation and either camp who expresses complete certainty about Pro or Anti Vax are mistaking ideology for reason.

I've been vaccinated but I work in a community that is sceptical about vaccine safety. I hear the arguments all the time. Simply considering them as nutters or paranoid doesn't help. I think taking the heat out of the polarity usually helps, by admitting that no-one holds absolute certainty with regard to vaccine safety but then go through the Bayesian process of navigating via probability, this usually opens their minds to considering vaccination. 

High vaccine safety over the first 9 months of use, high protection from death and hospitalisation are well documented.  But agree that we are dealing with mRNA tech and we don't know exactlywhat happens beyond 12 months let alone 3-10 years.(We just don't!)

So there is some understandable grounds for concern but is outweighed by the known benefits.

Unless they are card carrying QANON anti vaxxers, that usually eases up the reflex opposition.

Tbf the people described in the article seem to be nutters.

It's not about banning people from the festival itself per se, but not inviting them to be onstage spouting anti vac nonsense.

[BlackZeppelin]

Like anything, when you simply apply a category you obliterate particulars.

When you actually speak to people who have what might be neatly labelled Anti -vaxer views, you find a pretty wide range of concerns, many of them have a reasonable basis, many of these people are perfectly intelligent, well educated, able to reason and discern good data from bad, good sources from bad. 

There is (as always) a small vocal group who are fundamentally  anti-establishment and Covid just provides another arena of protest and another opportunity for "significance". 

It's mirrored by the same small percentage of people at the other end of the scale, who would do what any authority figure would say no matter how unreasonable.

It's actually just pointless arguing with them. But that remains a small percentage of folk who are tarred with the same brush.

[tarw]

34 minutes ago, BlackZeppelin said:

Like anything, when you simply apply a category you obliterate particulars.

When you actually speak to people who have what might be neatly labelled Anti -vaxer views, you find a pretty wide range of concerns, many of them have a reasonable basis, many of these people are perfectly intelligent, well educated, able to reason and discern good data from bad, good sources from bad. 

There is (as always) a small vocal group who are fundamentally  anti-establishment and Covid just provides another arena of protest and another opportunity for "significance". 

It's mirrored by the same small percentage of people at the other end of the scale, who would do what any authority figure would say no matter how unreasonable.

It's actually just pointless arguing with them. But that remains a small percentage of folk who are tarred with the same brush.

What I wanted to say last night-put much more eloquently 

[FloorFiller]

You’ll never be able to stop people openly talking about it and I’m sure conversations will be had across Greenfields/the rest of the site, but any signage or advertised ‘talks’ etc… fuck all that. After the couple of years I/we’ve all had the last thing I want to see at the festival is people openly promoting mass gatherings of anti vax nonsense. It’s bullshit and I’m sure most people have had enough of it, and I feel like it being on display anywhere at the fest will cause far more havoc/anger than the festival asking that it not happen.

Edited August 28, 2021 by FloorFiller
Words

[FloorFiller]

1 hour ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

Crucially every legitimate epidemiologists, virologist and doctor in the world is in favour of vaccines. These are the same people who have eradicated small pox and are on the brink of eliminating polio. They have a brilliant track record on the subject they are not charlatans. Their opinions are far more valid than all the people you speak of who are unqualified and got their opinions from unsubstantiated sources.

If you car broke down you would take the opinion of a qualified mechanic on what is wrong with the car over a bunch of random people unqualified in car maintenance (no matter how intelligent they appear to be). 

Why should anyone take the opinions of unqualified people on vaccines seriously? 

Yep, this whole bollocks of ‘well that’s just their opinion’ etc just doesn’t hold up here, and any rando having such a large voice because of social media these days had led a lot of people to believe that just because a lot of other people share their stupid opinions that their ‘voices need to be heard!’. Nope. Fuck that. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by FloorFiller

[sime]

What pleasantly surprised me is that all but one of my hippy friends have all been vaccinated whereas more people I know that are 'straight edged' are anti vaxx. Fortunately for me that is only a few people. But it's still a few people too much. They have always had an indifferent take on any popular views as if they have this need to make themselves stand out from everyone. And they do. As complete plums.

[Matt42]

11 hours ago, tarw said:

Definitely.

I think that this is turning into one of most un-Glastonbury threads.  Full of generalisations.  Treat people as people not stereotypical groups.

Listen to people, not decide what their views are based on your prejudices.

Situation is a bit different though. There has been a public health crisis and people have lost loved ones.

Its a pure case of something becoming outdated and problematic very fast. I used to enjoy the green fields and hearing about alternative medicine and people warning me against the flu jab, but we live in a different world now. The festival needs to be firm on this going forward as things have changed.

[BobWillis2]

14 hours ago, March Hare said:

Nah, I’d rather hear what they have to say. Got to retain that right to speak freely and offend occasionally as long as it’s within the limits of the law. That’s what the place is all about, let everyone be who they want to be.

 

12 hours ago, tarw said:

Definitely.

I think that this is turning into one of most un-Glastonbury threads.  Full of generalisations.  Treat people as people not stereotypical groups.

Listen to people, not decide what their views are based on your prejudices.

 

3 hours ago, MEGABOWL said:

It is censorship

 

100% agree. Threatening to kick people out of the festival for their views (however wrong they may be) is profoundly depressing. Maybe the festival really isn’t what it used to be.

So are you all ok with having Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson at the festival? Maybe let them do a speech on the pyramid stage? 
Free speech right? 

No didn’t think so. Anti vax sentiments have no place at Glastonbury and I would hope they would be very poorly received if they were. 
 

 

 

[steviewevie]

maybe they're right about crystal healing too.

[SwedgeAntilles]

Anti-vaccine talk should be censored. It's unscientific, trite and seriously harmful. Don't allow it the light of day.

[tarw]

1 hour ago, BobWillis2 said:

 

 

So are you all ok with having Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson at the festival? Maybe let them do a speech on the pyramid stage? 
Free speech right? 

No didn’t think so. Anti vax sentiments have no place at Glastonbury and I would hope they would be very poorly received if they were. 
 

 

 

So have you listened to my views or decided what they are based on your prejudices?

[Homer]

22 hours ago, Pinhead said:

Been in that record shop a load of times.

Trouble with these remaining old school New Agers is their mistrust of the state runs so deep that they cant see the wood from the trees anymore when something comes along that might actually help a situation rather than exploit it. Its a compound failure of government going back decades.

Yeah, I couldn't be bothered to type it but I reckon that's also true of the 90s ravers (as well as them both having taken too many drugs).

[Homer]

4 hours ago, steviewevie said:

maybe they're right about crystal healing too.

I believe this response is compulsory

[Homer]

22 hours ago, Quark said:

The massive lack of self awareness in not trusting what someone else wants to put in their bodies never ceases to amaze me.

I've seen this argument played on Facebook. Their response is 'yes, but it's my choice' (in response to not being able to go clubbing without a jab).

[SwedgeAntilles]

Ironically I wouldn't go into a club these days without being full of drugs. 

[steviewevie]

2 hours ago, Homer said:

I've seen this argument played on Facebook. Their response is 'yes, but it's my choice' (in response to not being able to go clubbing without a jab).

This is kind of true though...right? 

[FloorFiller]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

This is kind of true though...right? 

When your choice possibly infringes on the health and wellbeing of others it stops being a choice others should have to put up with etc etc