When will covid end ? Please be nice and respectful to others

[5co77ie]

https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/covid-jabs-on-line-up-as-vaccine-tent-opens-at-reading-and-leeds-festivals-3360131

 

Covid jabs on line-up as ‘vaccine tent’ opens at Reading and Leeds festivals

my two penneth:

"The vaccine push comes after several music festivals have been linked to outbreaks of Covid-19 cases in recent weeks."

I commend the idea but not the language. Again and again Covid vaccines are couched as being like the polio vaccine - stopping you getting the disease or any of it's symptoms, and stopping you transmitting the disease.

This is not how mRNA technology works, it merely gives the body the genetic instructions it needs to prime your immune system to mount a protective immune response if you encounter the SARS-CoV-2 virus. You still get the illness and you can still transmit it - you are just able to fight it better - and less likely to suffer a Cytoking Storm - where vital organs are severely stressed by the body's natural defences.

There's as yet NO evidence it prevents Long Covid (currently hitting 1 in 4 with Covid 6-10 months after infection) - it won't be until November, 10 months after the first jabs, that we will know that for sure.

Yes it a "lifesaving vaccine" that offers "the best protection we can get from coronavirus" but from the worst aspects of the illness at the point of infection. Both post viral infected conditions, and viral dormancy are not prevented - and you can still get Covid again, and as anyone who has the Delta variant will tell you that's not recommended.

I just don't understand why respecting social distancing at test events isn't still being recommended and also mask wearing - you can still have a good time.

Anyone who was first jabbed over 3 months has at most around 75% efficacy- more likely around 60%, and with the vaccine taking a fortnight of so to fully implant the information the body needs having a jab at the festival won't help you at the event - though it may well stop severe illness a few weeks later - that's mitigation not protection.

Health Secretary Sajid Javid insists: “Vaccines are saving lives and allowing us to regain the freedoms we’ve been looking forward to over the last 18 months – from visiting family abroad to festivals and gigs."

Really? Here's what 20 year old Jack from Staffordshie told the local BBC Spotlight after he caught Covid at Newquay Boardmasters and was bed ridden for nine days: "My whole family's got it now, so I regret going to be honest.... it wasn't worth it."

More and more infected youngsters with only one dose and elderly people with waning ethicacy 2 jabs are going to be coming to the same conclusion - and once you make a sector toxic it's very difficult to comeback from that. I seriously worry what's going to happen to the industry I love.

[5co77ie]

32 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I booked a October school holiday the other day and I didn't dare touch Wales or Scotland with a barge poll.  I have no doubt Drakeford and Sturgeon will continue with this approach for as long as possible as they are power crazed.  

Just amazes me that they use case numbers going through the roof as proof that they are right over masks instead of accepting they make no difference.

weird that all medical personnel are still wearing them then, most here in Devon hospitals are double masking - you'd have thought they would know that they make no difference - being in the industry of science and that.

Edited August 26, 2021 by 5co77ie

[efcfanwirral]

55 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/covid-jabs-on-line-up-as-vaccine-tent-opens-at-reading-and-leeds-festivals-3360131

 

Covid jabs on line-up as ‘vaccine tent’ opens at Reading and Leeds festivals

my two penneth:

"The vaccine push comes after several music festivals have been linked to outbreaks of Covid-19 cases in recent weeks."

I commend the idea but not the language. Again and again Covid vaccines are couched as being like the polio vaccine - stopping you getting the disease or any of it's symptoms, and stopping you transmitting the disease.

This is not how mRNA technology works, it merely gives the body the genetic instructions it needs to prime your immune system to mount a protective immune response if you encounter the SARS-CoV-2 virus. You still get the illness and you can still transmit it - you are just able to fight it better - and less likely to suffer a Cytoking Storm - where vital organs are severely stressed by the body's natural defences.

There's as yet NO evidence it prevents Long Covid (currently hitting 1 in 4 with Covid 6-10 months after infection) - it won't be until November, 10 months after the first jabs, that we will know that for sure.

Yes it a "lifesaving vaccine" that offers "the best protection we can get from coronavirus" but from the worst aspects of the illness at the point of infection. Both post viral infected conditions, and viral dormancy are not prevented - and you can still get Covid again, and as anyone who has the Delta variant will tell you that's not recommended.

I just don't understand why respecting social distancing at test events isn't still being recommended and also mask wearing - you can still have a good time.

Anyone who was first jabbed over 3 months has at most around 75% efficacy- more likely around 60%, and with the vaccine taking a fortnight of so to fully implant the information the body needs having a jab at the festival won't help you at the event - though it may well stop severe illness a few weeks later - that's mitigation not protection.

Health Secretary Sajid Javid insists: “Vaccines are saving lives and allowing us to regain the freedoms we’ve been looking forward to over the last 18 months – from visiting family abroad to festivals and gigs."

Really? Here's what 20 year old Jack from Staffordshie told the local BBC Spotlight after he caught Covid at Newquay Boardmasters and was bed ridden for nine days: "My whole family's got it now, so I regret going to be honest.... it wasn't worth it."

More and more infected youngsters with only one dose and elderly people with waning ethicacy 2 jabs are going to be coming to the same conclusion - and once you make a sector toxic it's very difficult to comeback from that. I seriously worry what's going to happen to the industry I love.

I'm with you- while I'm taking part in it by going for a day tomorrow, reading and Leeds is going to be what puts next year's festival season in doubt 

I don't think you can social distance all however many thousands are there, masks wouldn't be able to be enforced. 

I've got a really weird mixed guilty feeling about these festivals I'm going to, but also feeling like I'm getting away with something I shouldn't be doing. It's good for me ahead of a very tough winter, but it's also making that winter tougher collectively. 

The sensible older people DO distance from others, but there are mosh pits and DJ tents and I'm pretty sure that's where its spreading the most.

I guess the industry was always in a bad position- either cancel and destroy it all (capacity reduction surely the same result - less money, less jobs etc?) Or go ahead and become the obvious scapegoat.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/circuit-break-lockdown-scotland-being-24839693.amp?__twitter_impression=true this article about potential lockdowns in Scotland makes no mention of schools reopening, just nightclubs.

Reading and Leeds could easily be blamed for seeding covid in schools next week, leading to our own talk of restrictions. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[zahidf]

Tbh most people out and about and not online thinks Covid is over. The NHS doesn't seem at risk off collapsing and the cases in England went down yesterday on a week by week basis.

Aside from the Fake SAGE Zero Covid nutters who want us all locked up forever, I don't see anyone caring about festivals anymore in the real world. 

[zahidf]

By next year, more people will be immune due to vax or having caught covid so will be up for partying. Next year should be fine.

[5co77ie]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

By next year, more people will be immune due to vax or having caught covid so will be up for partying. Next year should be fine.

immune? - 3 of my advertisers I work with have it for the second time at the moment!

 

[5co77ie]

23 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Reading and Leeds could easily be blamed for seeding covid in schools next week, leading to our own talk of restrictions. 

I hadn't actually considered that before now.

[zahidf]

Just now, 5co77ie said:

immune? - 3 of my advertisers I work with have it for the second time at the moment!

 

Any of them seriously ill?

Its endemic now, and isnt going away. Govt and economies arent going for Zero Covid

 By next year, i think it will be the case that theyll drop the requirement to isolate if you catch it 

[zahidf]

25 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

Reading and Leeds could easily be blamed for seeding covid in schools next week, leading to our own talk of restrictions. 

No it wont. Germany are linking restirctions to hospitalisations. We pretty much as well. We arent close to the Jan peak of hospitlizations

[5co77ie]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Any of them seriously ill?

Its endemic now, and isnt going away. Govt and economies arent going for Zero Covid

 By next year, i think it will be the case that theyll drop the requirement to isolate if you catch it 

yes - one of the women who first got it back in March 2020 and then got Long Covid has been hospitalised this time around

[5co77ie]

14 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Any of them seriously ill?

Its endemic now, and isnt going away. Govt and economies arent going for Zero Covid

 By next year, i think it will be the case that theyll drop the requirement to isolate if you catch it 

only in 56 countries is that the case though - the rest are still fightin it, with much of Polynesia and East Asia in in complete lockdown, 63 countries have had less cases than Devon and Cornwall!

 

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

only in 56 countries is that the case though - the rest are still fightin it, with much of Polynesia and East Asia in in complete lockdown, 63 countries have had less cases than Devon and Cornwall!

 

oh, im only talking domestically. In the context of festivals, internationally isnt a factor

 

[lost]

I said in the main general discussion thread last year that I'll believe this is over if I'm on a dance floor on new years eve signing auld lang syne and I still haven't changed that opinion.

Its easy to forget very few were dying with covid last summer and I believe as late as the 2nd half of September it was only the 18th most mentioned thing on death certificates (its currently 10th) I'd suggest people at least mentally prepare for the possibility of restrictions come respiratory virus season and then I guess anything better is a bonus. There still seems to be alot of uncertainty around the vaccines, how long antibodies last and then the bodies ability either to use T-cells or antibody memory to fight infection.

[5co77ie]

Just now, zahidf said:

oh, im only talking domestically. In the context of festivals, internationally isnt a factor

 

ah okay - I was just talking most of the pool of interesting musical touring talent I'm interested in these days that isn't white kids with guitars.

My biggest concern is the large number of people I know with Long Covid, three of them, in a similar trade to me, are delivery drivers for a local well known Farm produce supplier down the road, who have had it for over 3 months now and not been behind the wheel in all that time. As a worker who has big face to face delivery round myself of around 500 shops every couple of months - I'm not looking forward to missing out on the summer work if I catch anything this winter (like they did last winter when I wasn't working due to lockdown).

 

Mind you I think I may leave it a few years before visiting my relations in Australia 😉 : https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2021/08/26/australia-has-begun-building-covid-concentration-camps-n2594763

 

 

 

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

ah okay - I was just talking most of the pool of interesting musical touring talent I'm interested in these days that isn't white kids with guitars.

My biggest concern is the large number of people I know with Long Covid, three of them, in a similar trade to me, are delivery drivers for a local well known Farm produce supplier down the road, who have had it for over 3 months now and not been behind the wheel in all that time. As a worker who has big face to face delivery round myself of around 500 shops every couple of months - I'm not looking forward to missing out on the summer work if I catch anything this winter (like they did last winter when I wasn't working due to lockdown).

 

Mind you I think I may leave it a few years before visiting my relations in Australia 😉 : https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2021/08/26/australia-has-begun-building-covid-concentration-camps-n2594763

 

 

 

Aussies love a camp for foreigners.... But thats what being overly focused on Covid gets you. The amount of 'lefties' ok with closing the border amazes me

 

I guess all we can do is get the vax asap and hope for the best! Im not against Masks being used more widely, but social distancing needs to be in the bin really. 

[5co77ie]

In other news sad to hear of the first hospitalisation at the Paralympics today:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/08/26/tokyo-paralympics-reports-first-covid-19-hospitalization/?sh=51fd4a826906

 

[efcfanwirral]

13 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

ah okay - I was just talking most of the pool of interesting musical touring talent I'm interested in these days that isn't white kids with guitars.

My biggest concern is the large number of people I know with Long Covid, three of them, in a similar trade to me, are delivery drivers for a local well known Farm produce supplier down the road, who have had it for over 3 months now and not been behind the wheel in all that time. As a worker who has big face to face delivery round myself of around 500 shops every couple of months - I'm not looking forward to missing out on the summer work if I catch anything this winter (like they did last winter when I wasn't working due to lockdown).

 

Mind you I think I may leave it a few years before visiting my relations in Australia 😉 : https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2021/08/26/australia-has-begun-building-covid-concentration-camps-n2594763

They really seem to have lost their shit over there 

Edited August 26, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[efcfanwirral]

7 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

In other news sad to hear of the first hospitalisation at the Paralympics today:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/08/26/tokyo-paralympics-reports-first-covid-19-hospitalization/?sh=51fd4a826906

 

"The patient is not displaying severe symptoms, organizing committee spokesperson Masanori Takaya added"

That's strange - out of the 15 cases why is that one in hospital if not for severe symptoms?.

Edited August 26, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[5co77ie]

Just now, zahidf said:

I guess all we can do is get the vax asap and hope for the best! Im not against Masks being used more widely, but social distancing needs to be in the bin really. 

you do know how mRNA vaccines work? You're talking like it's a Smallpox vaccine or summit  - it's not a vaccine that confers immunity it's a trigger (of ever lowering efficacy ofver time) for an immune response inside the body which once infected produces antibodies, that protects us (in most cases) from getting hospitalised. It doesn't make you bulletproof - only social distancing will stop you contracting in the first place. There's also as yet no evidence the vaccine stops you getting Long Covid month later from the original infection - even with vaccinia you often get post-viral fatigue (I got a virus at Glasto in 2019 and didn't enjoy how bad the fatigue was that came after and how much it effected my job and that was before Covid.

 

[5co77ie]

5 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

They really seem to have lost their shit over there 

oh indeed- same with most of the Pacific islands.

 

[5co77ie]

2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

"The patient is not displaying severe symptoms, organizing committee spokesperson Masanori Takaya added"

That's strange - out of the 15 cases why is that one in hospital if not for severe symptoms?.

my guess would be hypercytokinemia due to other medication

 

[5co77ie]

1 minute ago, 5co77ie said:

my guess would be hypercytokinemia due to other medication

 

but much like fight Club we don't talk about hypercytokinemia 😉

 

[zahidf]

13 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

you do know how mRNA vaccines work? You're talking like it's a Smallpox vaccine or summit  - it's not a vaccine that confers immunity it's a trigger (of ever lowering efficacy ofver time) for an immune response inside the body which once infected produces antibodies, that protects us (in most cases) from getting hospitalised. It doesn't make you bulletproof - only social distancing will stop you contracting in the first place. There's also as yet no evidence the vaccine stops you getting Long Covid month later from the original infection - even with vaccinia you often get post-viral fatigue (I got a virus at Glasto in 2019 and didn't enjoy how bad the fatigue was that came after and how much it effected my job and that was before Covid.

 

Theres some evidence of it making you less likely to get it, and then once you do get it, the viral load is less. Also some evidence of it helping people with Long Covid

 

But as i said, its endemic now. Itd be shit if people i know catch it, but at the same time, im not going to stay at home for months without an endpoint. This is as good as it gets IMO

[5co77ie]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Theres some evidence of it making you less likely to get it, and then once you do get it, the viral load is less. Also some evidence of it helping people with Long Covid

 

But as i said, its endemic now. Itd be shit if people i know catch it, but at the same time, im not going to stay at home for months without an endpoint. This is as good as it gets IMO

As I say I know of at least 20 friends with Long Covid - a handful of which have been told they will have it for life  - that's at home unable to do sod all for the rest of their days, I'm sure they can see no endpoint at present. I find it interesting that Insurance companies are refusing to cover it in policies and even employers are starting to have difficult decisions with 1 in 4 of those with Covid having Long Covid - if we are going to infect the whole population with it - we better have a back up for the debilitating long term effects if we intend to put 10 million or so in the Long Covid corner. A friend of mine was a decent compound archer he caught Covid in April this year - he's only just started showing symptoms of Long Covid a few weeks ago - now he can't even hold his bow up and walks with difficulty with a stick - he's 23. At the moment Long Covid isn't even classed as a disability.

https://www.reward-strategy.com/opinion/should-long-covid-be-considered-a-disability-19777

Edited August 26, 2021 by 5co77ie

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

As I say I know of at least 20 friends with Long Covid - a handful of which have been told they will have it for life  - that at home unable to do sod all for the rest of their days, I'm sure they can see no endpoint at present. I find it interesting that Insurance companies are refusing to cover it in policies and even employers are starting to have difficult decisions with 1 in 4 of those with Covid having Long Covid - if we are going to infect the whole population with it - we batter have a back up for the debilitating long term effects. A friend of mine was a decent compound archer he caught Covid in April this year - he's only just started showing symptoms a few weeks ago - now he can't even hold his bow up and walks with difficulty with a stick - he's 23. At the moment Long Covid isn't even classed as a disability.

https://www.reward-strategy.com/opinion/should-long-covid-be-considered-a-disability-19777

Were any of these post vaccine?