When will covid end ? Please be nice and respectful to others

[Neil]

Just now, Neil said:

it was the end of february when i hit the hospital and it was coping ok-ish from what i could see right now

that w\as five diifferent hospitals during the last lockdown.

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I'm not reluctant at all in regards to saying what what we do next. This entirely depends on which way it is believed the health service will fall on it's knees.

I think it's pretty clear that if this is from hospitalisations then given the fact it's looking increasingly more likely that the new variant is less severe we should protect those still at risk having said this rather than look at society as a whole.

If it's from staff shortages then I don't know what the answer is necessarily but there has to be another way than imposing restrictions surely?!

Open the borders and increase recruitment from overseas

[Justiceforcedave]

Whatever happens, the government needs to sort their shit out because A LOT of businesses and jobs are going down the pan otherwise.

[Justiceforcedave]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Open the borders and increase recruitment from overseas

If only we could have some kind of partnership with neighbouring countries that allowed healthcare professionals to live and work in the UK without lots of red tape.

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Open the borders and increase recruitment from overseas

ove3rall, i was suprised how few were from overseas, a lot more asians than i was expecting to see, plenty of philipinos.

[JoeyT]

5 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

If only we could have some kind of partnership with neighbouring countries that allowed healthcare professionals to live and work in the UK without lots of red tape.

What is this utopia you speak of 😂

Maybe we should just let the hospital staff who have covid treat the hospital patients who have covid? That would solve any staff shortages...

I did see something posted in jest on twitter saying there should be a whole separate hospitality industry running whereby a positive rather than negative test gains you entry 👀 

[steviewevie]

18 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I don't think so either but you are looking at one metric.  I think the real challenge comes with the pressure of staff availability.  Remember its not just Doctors and Nurses - its the whole show of receptionists, catering people, security, porters and so on. 

I think that is where the pressure comes with this new varriant.

I don't know about 34000 or whatever...but there are only so many acute beds for those severly ill...6000 or something. Last winter they just had to stop a load of stuff and divert resources to keep them running, which is why still have such a big backlog now...and that was also why we had the lockdown. This winter is different, more infectious but milder variant, more people with immunity, hospitals already very busy.

[steviewevie]

25 minutes ago, Neil said:

it was the end of february when i hit the hospital and it was coping ok-ish from what i could see right now i'm thinking of the wonderful staff who looked after me, feel quite emotional about it

yeah, a lot of them have had a really hard few years...they need that new cash, and probably a lot more.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

What is this utopia you speak of 😂

Maybe we should just let the hospital staff who have covid treat the hospital patients who have covid? That would solve any staff shortages...

I did see something posted in jest on twitter saying there should be a whole separate hospitality industry running whereby a positive rather than negative test gains you entry 👀 

people who have covid are supposed to self isolate...you know, because it's infectious...

[steviewevie]

19 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

If only we could have some kind of partnership with neighbouring countries that allowed healthcare professionals to live and work in the UK without lots of red tape.

I think those neighbouring countries are going to need as many healthcare professionals as they can get too.

[efcfanwirral]

33 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think its the last question where you fall flat.

Just saying surely there is another option doesn't make it the case.  I honestly don't know what else you could do given you literally would have days to act.

Big issue with this latest variant being so infectious is that by the time the indicators show we need it, it'll be far too late. And we then need a longer and harsher set of restrictions after that to mop up.

Question I'm asking is - if this wasn't Christmas week/breaking a promise/perhaps a threat dictator dickhead's rule, would we already be in whatever "step" we're going to end up with next week? And therefore should we be already?

Edited December 22, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[steviewevie]

35 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

One option is to say there is so much covid around then treat it like the flu and no one isolate.  But that is a HUGE gamble.

so much more infectious than flu.

[zahidf]

18 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Big issue with this latest variant being so infectious is that by the time the indicators show we need it, it'll be far too late. And we then need a longer and harsher set of restrictions after that to mop up.

Question I'm asking is - if this wasn't Christmas week/breaking a promise/perhaps a threat dictator dickhead's rule, would we already be in whatever "step" we're going to end up with next week? And therefore should we be already?

Simply put, its not going to keep going up to infinity. And S.Africa is already going down now without any restrictions and without destroying their health care system

So i say hold our nerve, and don't get bounced into pointless restrictions. They said they same in July and Sept, and they were wrong. I suspect London hospitalisations will continue to level out

 

[zahidf]

Here are two contrasting responses to the new self-isolation rules announced by the government overnight.

In an assessment for the Science Media Centre, Dr Richard Tedder, member of the Clinical Virology Network, says that it is “probably correct” to say that someone who tests negative on two lateral flow tests is unlikely to be infectious and that requiring two LFTs is a “good compromise”.

But Deepti Gurdasani, an epidemiologist at Queen Mary University of London, has criticised the policy, and particularly how it is being promoted by ministers.

 

What a surprise, fake SAGE are against the 7 day change

[zahidf]

Excellent thread, working reading in full

 

[steviewevie]

London is the petri dish.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/new-restrictions-england-avoided-hospital-admissions-london-do-not-soar-this-week-1364554

[zahidf]

More from the thread

 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Excellent thread, working reading in full

 

Last tweet...

Overall though, despite being a shit situation, I honestly believe it will get progressively less shit each year.

[zahidf]

Wales:

Rule of 6 in pubs
Social distancing rules reimposed
Table service only
Guidance to limit household mixing
No gatherings of more than 30

[grumpyhack]

1 hour ago, Justiceforcedave said:

If only we could have some kind of partnership with neighbouring countries that allowed healthcare professionals to live and work in the UK without lots of red tape.

We could set up an organisation that allows free travel tyo neighbouring countries for work.  Perhaps it could be called the European Union.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Last Jan the NHS has 34,000.00 hospitlised at one time cos of covid and it didnt collapse.

 

This year we have around 7500 and it doesnt look like its going to get close to what we had last year. And cos of triple jabs, its not going to grow exponentially to infinity

 

So i dont think there is a situation at present where the NHS will 'collapse'

I would argue the NHS did collapse I  the first wave.

We keep saying "collapse" but what does that mean to people? It's not like all the electric will go out in every hospital and all the doctors will just vanish.

All that will happen if hospitalizations get bad is that the standard of care drops. More non-COVID treatment get cancelled, more and harsher triage will be done by ambulances before even reaching hospital.

During the first wave cancer treatments were cancelled. During the first wave ambulances would visit people with COVID and if they were too old/weak, not take them to hospital and leave them to die so those more likely to benefit from treatment could still get it.

I know government policy is to pretend this didn't happen, so when we say "well at worst it'll only be as bad as in March 2020 and that was fine..." - it wasn't fine. It was a total disaster. It *was* the NHS collapsing - you just don't realise if you didn't need it back then. They hid it quite well.

If there's some other definition of NHS collapse that isn't "not being able to get everyone the treatment they need" that I'm missing please let me know!

[DeanoL]

16 minutes ago, grumpyhack said:

We could set up an organisation that allows free travel tyo neighbouring countries for work.  Perhaps it could be called the European Union.

It would have to be called "British Empire" I think.

[efcfanwirral]

31 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Wales:

Rule of 6 in pubs
Social distancing rules reimposed
Table service only
Guidance to limit household mixing
No gatherings of more than 30

 

29 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Welsh and the Scots seem to love it.  Nasty nicky and silly drakeford remain popular.  Anything that stops them looking like us idiot English I suppose.

No furlough til we do the same, and if we don't, ruin for those industries? Or is there furlough?

Edited December 22, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[efcfanwirral]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

No furlough as I understand.  

Shocking. They don't seem to care about jobs or businesses anymore

[BobWillis2]

42 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I would argue the NHS did collapse I  the first wave.

We keep saying "collapse" but what does that mean to people? It's not like all the electric will go out in every hospital and all the doctors will just vanish.

All that will happen if hospitalizations get bad is that the standard of care drops. More non-COVID treatment get cancelled, more and harsher triage will be done by ambulances before even reaching hospital.

During the first wave cancer treatments were cancelled. During the first wave ambulances would visit people with COVID and if they were too old/weak, not take them to hospital and leave them to die so those more likely to benefit from treatment could still get it.

I know government policy is to pretend this didn't happen, so when we say "well at worst it'll only be as bad as in March 2020 and that was fine..." - it wasn't fine. It was a total disaster. It *was* the NHS collapsing - you just don't realise if you didn't need it back then. They hid it quite well.

If there's some other definition of NHS collapse that isn't "not being able to get everyone the treatment they need" that I'm missing please let me know!

For once I agree with you.