When will covid end ? Please be nice and respectful to others

[Ozanne]

Vaccination update:

[Chapple12345]

Lets face facts - no one knows what's going to happen. All the models for the summer were completely wrong and whilst we know winter will be tough the vaccines are doing an amazing job and reducing hospitalizations and deaths hugely. There's no point worrying about hypothetical lockdowns or anything similar when there's little to no indication of anything like it yet 

[Ozanne]

Vaccination update:

[zahidf]

Wow. I see the pro lockdown lot are getting desperate and pulling numbers out there arse 

VAX 100% of the 5 year olds and prevent 60% of hospitalisations????

This rubbish makes me think we shouldn't vax the kids.

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/jabs-children-under-16-deaths-long-covid-cases-reducing-infections-research-finds-1190056

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by zahidf

[mcshed]

On 9/7/2021 at 4:40 PM, Barry Fish said:

A wrong clock is right twice a day

Everyone knows what you mean so I'm aware that this is pointless pedantic nitpicking but a wrong clock isn't right twice a day, a wrong clock that keeps good time is consistently wrong, a wrong clock like on my microwave that gets about a minute faster every week would be wrong for over 13 years, it is in fact a stopped clock that is right twice a day.

[mcshed]

28 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

True story 

The idiom when used correctly is very apt, Independent SAGE are a stopped clock the time they are stuck on is "the government isn't doing enough about COVID" so they are right whenever that is correct and wrong the rest of the time.

[efcfanwirral]

11 hours ago, zahidf said:

Wow. I see the pro lockdown lot are getting desperate and pulling numbers out there arse 

VAX 100% of the 5 year olds and prevent 60% of hospitalisations????

This rubbish makes me think we shouldn't vax the kids.

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/jabs-children-under-16-deaths-long-covid-cases-reducing-infections-research-finds-1190056

 

 

 

 

The funded by Moderna bit is a massive conflict of interest when it comes to releasing figures to influence policy. Im not saying they're wrong, realistically they're probably right, but they're not exactly going come out and say more vaccines that'll make them $billions are not needed.  Same with Pfizer's boosters every 6 months thing - probably medically accurate but I'd be a lot more comfortable with truly independent studies considering the insane amounts of money involved. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[zahidf]

21 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

The funded by Moderna bit is a massive conflict of interest when it comes to releasing figures to influence policy. Im not saying they're wrong, realistically they're probably right, but they're not exactly going come out and say more vaccines that'll make them $billions are not needed.  Same with Pfizer's boosters every 6 months thing - probably medically accurate but I'd be a lot more comfortable with truly independent studies considering the insane amounts of money involved. 

I dont see that study saying we will ave 300k infections a day to be right at all. 

[efcfanwirral]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I dont see that study saying we will ave 300k infections a day to be right at all. 

I meant the vaccinating the kids preventing deaths bit (as long as we now accept they do spread it to some extent). 300k sounds mental but with zero mitigations on social contact how far out will it be? We're getting 30,000 per day of this particular respiratory disease in summer, plus any ill not being tested, so what will a whole winter of people meeting inside do? Would we not normally expect 10x the incidence of whatever respiratory disease in winter vs summer? And those aren't normally this transmissible 

As you know, I don't think it'll get there because I think restrictions will kick in way before that point, but left unchecked these numbers that sound big might not be so crazy. 

The big question is can the NHS cope with that + flu for a bit? 

Edited September 9, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[zahidf]

17 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I meant the vaccinating the kids preventing deaths bit (as long as we now accept they do spread it to some extent). 300k sounds mental but with zero mitigations on social contact how far out will it be? We're getting 30,000 per day of this particular respiratory disease in summer, plus any ill not being tested, so what will a whole winter of people meeting inside do? Would we not normally expect 10x the incidence of whatever respiratory disease in winter vs summer? And those aren't normally this transmissible 

As you know, I don't think it'll get there because I think restrictions will kick in way before that point, but left unchecked these numbers that sound big might not be so crazy. 

The big question is can the NHS cope with that + flu for a bit? 

YOu think in a 80% double vaxxed adult population, we will get 1.5 millions infections a week?

Like, we wont. Not going to happen. The mpst we got with no Vaxs in Jan was 100k one day. Weve been free for a month and half and it hasnt been doubling that much

Also, they are saying we need 100% vaccinations in 5-12 year olds to reduce hospitalisations by 60%. not among the children, but again in the adult populations.

Thats mental. Its scaremongering the companies trying to sell their vaccines

Edited September 9, 2021 by zahidf

[efcfanwirral]

23 minutes ago, zahidf said:

YOu think in a 80% double vaxxed adult population, we will get 1.5 millions infections a week?

Like, we wont. Not going to happen. The mpst we got with no Vaxs in Jan was 100k one day. Weve been free for a month and half and it hasnt been doubling that much

Also, they are saying we need 100% vaccinations in 5-12 year olds to reduce hospitalisations by 60%. not among the children, but again in the adult populations.

Thats mental. Its scaremongering the companies trying to sell their vaccines

Guess we'll see if  Pfizer's "waning after 6 months" is also scaremongering! 

Huge ethical issues on the kids thing but that's not for me to comment on as I don't and never will have kids, so I neither have any to protect nor am I in danger of being infected by them. 

Definitely agree with that last line - at the very least the i paper clearly cited it was a Moderna study. I wonder how many others paid for by vaccine companies have not been cited as clearly over the past months...

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Guess we'll see if  Pfizer's "waning after 6 months" is also scaremongering! 

Huge ethical issues on the kids thing but that's not for me to comment on as I don't and never will have kids, so I neither have any to protect nor am I in danger of being infected by them. 

Definitely agree with that last line - at the very least the i paper clearly cited it was a Moderna study. I wonder how many others paid for by vaccine companies have not been cited as clearly over the past months...

My feeling is that if its not for the direct benefits of kids, we shouldnt vax them just to protect unvaxxed adults. 

[stuartbert two hats]

Has anyone found any data specifically on whether AZ protection is starting to wane? Because of the way its protection has been shown to slowly build over time, I wouldn't be surprised if it holds antibody-based protection for a longer period than the mRNA vaccines.

[steviewevie]

23 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Has anyone found any data specifically on whether AZ protection is starting to wane? Because of the way its protection has been shown to slowly build over time, I wouldn't be surprised if it holds antibody-based protection for a longer period than the mRNA vaccines.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/jul/vaccine-antibody-levels-start-wane-around-2-3-months

[steviewevie]

Moderna's the real deal.

https://www.ft.com/content/aaddc31b-415d-43d0-b314-bc89a8b860e0

[zahidf]

30 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Has anyone found any data specifically on whether AZ protection is starting to wane? Because of the way its protection has been shown to slowly build over time, I wouldn't be surprised if it holds antibody-based protection for a longer period than the mRNA vaccines.

Antibodies or T cells? i cant find it now but that Chise tweeter had a study which said the Tcell protection was better than the other types of vaccines.

[JoeyT]

26 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Moderna's the real deal.

https://www.ft.com/content/aaddc31b-415d-43d0-b314-bc89a8b860e0

Paywalled.

I can confirm it is though. I've got that sweet juice running through my body and along with having had covid already I'm basically superhuman.

[stuartbert two hats]

28 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Antibodies or T cells? i cant find it now but that Chise tweeter had a study which said the Tcell protection was better than the other types of vaccines.

Antibodies. Well, any kind of symptomatic infection really.  I'm already convinced that all the vaccines used in the UK have good long term cellular protection.

[stuartbert two hats]

39 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Moderna's the real deal.

https://www.ft.com/content/aaddc31b-415d-43d0-b314-bc89a8b860e0

Unpaywalled
https://archive.is/y0psx

Edited September 9, 2021 by stuartbert two hats

[JoeyT]

 

[zahidf]

31 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Antibodies. Well, any kind of symptomatic infection really.  I'm already convinced that all the vaccines used in the UK have good long term cellular protection.

AH cool. We should get some evidence soonish when the booster advice comes out i would hope

 

Fauci in the US said there was evdience that a third dose is necessary to get loads of antibodies but hasnt released that evdience

[stuartbert two hats]

Just now, zahidf said:

AH cool. We should get some evidence soonish when the booster advice comes out i would hope

 

Fauci in the US said there was evdience that a third dose is necessary to get loads of antibodies but hasnt released that evdience

I think that FT article answered a lot of my questions nicely.

[efcfanwirral]

 

I'd say the Scottish plans were pretty clear, way clearer than I expect the English ones to be and actually give businesses some time to prepare. Are they just pissed off they're allowing their politicians a vote at all, which seems in doubt down here after yesterday's performance from Zahawi

And why exactly are they voting against it there yet pushing it through here? Really odd behavior 

Edited September 9, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[zahidf]

 

[Ozanne]

Vaccination update: