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When will covid end ? Please be nice and respectful to others


crazyfool1
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13 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

First - what a shitty comment...

Secondly - One thing that is clear with you Dean - and I said this earlier - even if I spoon feed you stuff you won't accept it.  

Well yeah, an article that says there's no scientific evidence for it, and then literally goes on to make the same point I made (that it's also at least partly down to social isolation) isn't the slam dunk you think it is.

And that's the thing that's clear with you: you're unable to properly interrogate a source to see if it's actually making the point you think it is, and if it's at all backed up by any sort of evidence. I'm pretty sure you mostly just read the headlines and then post it here. 

If I had posted something from a doctor saying "I think masks are far better than we currently think, there's no research out there, but I'm sure I'm right" you would rightly ridicule it. But then that's because it doesn't agree with what you think. Anything that backs up your point of view, you consider to be an accurate source, and anything that doesn't you don't.

Did you look at anything else on that site by the way? 

https://thenationalpulse.com/2020/12/25/fertility-covid-vaccine/

It's a far right blog by one of the Breitbart lot. But apparently a reliable source now?

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6 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Well yeah, an article that says there's no scientific evidence for it, and then literally goes on to make the same point I made (that it's also at least partly down to social isolation) isn't the slam dunk you think it is.

And that's the thing that's clear with you: you're unable to properly interrogate a source to see if it's actually making the point you think it is, and if it's at all backed up by any sort of evidence. I'm pretty sure you mostly just read the headlines and then post it here. 

If I had posted something from a doctor saying "I think masks are far better than we currently think, there's no research out there, but I'm sure I'm right" you would rightly ridicule it. But then that's because it doesn't agree with what you think. Anything that backs up your point of view, you consider to be an accurate source, and anything that doesn't you don't.

Did you look at anything else on that site by the way? 

https://thenationalpulse.com/2020/12/25/fertility-covid-vaccine/

It's a far right blog by one of the Breitbart lot. But apparently a reliable source now?

I wasn't looking for slam dunks...  I was looking to expose your bullshit comment about zero costs.

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2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I wasn't looking for slam dunks...  I was looking to expose your bullshit comment about zero costs.

First, I never said I thought it was zero cost, again, you're reading the headline not the entire post. I said I think the current UK government consider masks to be zero cost, as we saw a few weeks back when Johnson had said his priority was ending WFH over masks. So maybe send that link to Boris?

Secondly, it doesn't support your argument at all. On a far-right, anti-vax, anti-mask site the best they have is one doctor admitting there's no data but saying he thinks that's the case. How is what she is saying, as a individual, any more valid that what Christina Pagal says? Other than that it supports your current point of view?

Incidentally, as far as I remember, at no point in the entire pandemic that I've posted on here, have I ever used a Twitter thread or blog to back up my argument. I've linked to respected newspapers, I've quoted from books, I've pointed directly to bits of data, but yeah, you're never going to win an argument with me by saying LOOK AT THE MANS ON TWITTER! 

You need to start thinking about what you're reading and whether it's true or not. Hint: the answer is never influenced by how much you want it to be true. There are posters on this thread that are well down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theory at this point, unless you want to end up as one of them, maybe don't jump right on stuff they post as you think it helps your argument. It doesn't. It just damages your credibility.

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22 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

First, I never said I thought it was zero cost

On 1/21/2022 at 12:01 PM, DeanoL said:

I'm surprised the figures are that high, to be honest, and I don't think we should keep them, but it's an easy argument to make that cutting infections by 10% is worth the "zero" cost of having masks.

Neither Boris or the government has ever said there was a zero cost to masks.  They have actually said the exact opposite.  Its only ever been people of your mindset with that view point.

You have pushed the idea throughout the pandemic that masks are "just a bit of cloth" and everyone should man up about them.  And now you want to pivot 🙂

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22 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Neither Boris or the government has ever said there was a zero cost to masks.  They have actually said the exact opposite.  Its only ever been people of your mindset with that view point.

You have pushed the idea throughout the pandemic that masks are "just a bit of cloth" and everyone should man up about them.  And now you want to pivot 🙂

No, I just think anyone who regularly calls other people snowflakes but gets bothered by wearing a mask needs to man up. There are legit reasons for not wearing masks but most of the "they're uncomfortable" ones can be sorted by either finding the right mask or just getting used to them. So no, I don't want to pivot.

And you might be right about the government - the impression I was getting was that they thought masks had pretty much no impact on the economy. I don't agree with that, there's both negative and positive impacts (they put some people off doing stuff, but then people have a false sense of security when mandated, so actually encourages others). The discussion about what Johnson actually thinks about masks and will do going forward, and the economic impacts in either direction was the discussion I was hoping to have last week, but instead you and others decided to have a dig instead.

Here's the thing you need to understand about me. I'm not here to change your mind on anything. Couldn't give a fuck what you think. There's people posting total nonsense in this thread and I'll happily ignore them. I'm not interesting in convincing someone that "The Great Reset" is bullshit. 

I come here for interesting discussion, I come here to get out of my bubble and see what the more hawkish elements of society think. And because of that, sometimes I'll just talk about stuff. "Oh this is interesting", "you could argue this", "some people say this", etc. I am not trying to push a particular viewpoint on you. Not everything I say, not every point I bring up, is my personal, deeply held belief. Sometimes I do share those beliefs too, but my posts don't all have an agenda that's pushing towards a specific thing. And yeah, sometimes, I change my mind. You seem confused by that, because that's not what you do, and you think everyone must do the same as you.

That's why the times I get frustrated or annoyed, aren't when you disagree, but when you just go in for a personal attack instead. Because that's boring. Yeah, I can bat it back, I can make a joke, I can mock your obsession with your family holidays, whatever. Or you just link to some utter nonsense on a far right blog and say "see".

And even then, there's an interesting discussion there about the impact on toddlers of all this, and I tried to take it in that direction. And I stand by what I said: how many times does a toddler actually watch two adults conversing with masks on. Not in the home, and not outdoors so what's left? The real problem would seem to have been social distancing preventing those interactions happening in the first place. That's an interesting point surely? 

But no, because if you acknowledge that, you lose out on being able to blame masks, and masks are the one part of all the government restrictions you personally can't handle, so you see everything through that lens, yet you're totally unable to acknowledge that any such bias could exist in you. It's just complete coincidence that the one restriction you struggle with the most is the one restriction that is of no benefit whatsoever. Tell you what, here's some no-name blog with a headline that proves my point: https://theconversation.com/over-half-of-adults-unvaccinated-for-covid-19-fear-needles-heres-whats-proven-to-help-161636

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Just now, Barry Fish said:

I just wish you would own your opinions - sadly you don't / can't...

Oh well...

Why? What difference does it make to you? If you're that interested ask, I'll give you my opinion on whatever you want, and yeah, it may have changed, my opinions do change though, that's a strength, not a weakness. 

Just now, Barry Fish said:

By the way Dean - the only person getting annoyed is you 🙂 I find you amusing  🙂

I think you guys have pretty good form at getting annoyed, just not by me, just mostly Indie SAGE....

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On 1/21/2022 at 6:22 PM, Barry Fish said:

During the pandemic there has been the overuse of the world selfish mainly directed at the young by the old.  I think a lot of older people need to be a little more humble at the sacrifice given.

 

On 1/21/2022 at 6:23 PM, Barry Fish said:

We was due to go Disneyland Paris until the did the whole mask outdoors thing which is a big no no obviously for us and then they doubled down on the vaccine passport for kids and ruled us out entirely lol unless we want to do daily testing which we don't...

If we're talking about contradictory opinions: "Older people are being more selfish than they realise. In other news, I told the kids they can't got to Disneyland because Daddy can't wear a mask."

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35 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 

If we're talking about contradictory opinions: "Older people are being more selfish than they realise. In other news, I told the kids they can't got to Disneyland because Daddy can't wear a mask."

You would have a point if the kids wanted to wear masks all day on holiday.  Better luck next time 🙂 

We are going LA in Feb - indoor only and 13+ hours wearing them when traveling - so again - better luck next time 😄 

Disneyland Anaheim for the win 😄 

Edited by Barry Fish
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38 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

You would have a point if the kids wanted to wear masks all day on holiday.  Better luck next time 🙂 

If you hector them as much as you hector me they probably figure they should just go along with you so they can have an easy life. They wear them all day at school, they're not bothered, it's just you. It's just you ruining stuff for the rest of your family.

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6 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

If you hector them as much as you hector me they probably figure they should just go along with you so they can have an easy life. They wear them all day at school, they're not bothered, it's just you. It's just you ruining stuff for the rest of your family.

wrong - Primary school kids don't wear them all day and my secondary school kid only wear them in communal areas.  They have their own voices and both wanted to swap for the USA.  Go on - keep trying 🙂 

I let the kids choose what they want to do - totally up to them.  They test when they want / they wear masks when they want - outside of legal mandates.

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Just now, fraybentos1 said:

This is amazing! Unfortunately I’m in Scotland so sturgeon will wait a while before joining. I’m away to Copenhagen late feb so praying it’s gone by then to save us like 50 quid or whatever 

As a family of 4 going to the USA in Feb we was looking at quite a heavy amount of costs to get there and back but now we just have the USA requirements.  Should help with the cocktail budget 😄 

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1 minute ago, fraybentos1 said:

This is amazing! Unfortunately I’m in Scotland so sturgeon will wait a while before joining. I’m away to Copenhagen late feb so praying it’s gone by then to save us like 50 quid or whatever 

Scotland mainly follows the UK lead don't they? As they know people will just fly to the UK and travel back on the train.

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Just now, zahidf said:

Scotland mainly follows the UK lead don't they? As they know people will just fly to the UK and travel back on the train.

Yup - but sometimes a little delayed - Nasty Nicky likes her games 🙂

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