Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 1 minute ago, DeanoL said: I'm surprised the figures are that high, to be honest, and I don't think we should keep them, but it's an easy argument to make that cutting infections by 10% is worth the "zero" cost of having masks. Total rubbish... The concept there is zero cost of having masks is laughable. What do you think footfall has been like in places like the Trafford Centre during periods of mask enforcement ? Lots of people who would have normally happily walked around the Centre eating, drinking and shopping all day on a Saturday are much less likely to do it if they have to contend with masks all day. You seem to have been living in a box for the whole pandemic. We can debate all day long how much "cost" there is to masks but if you want to argue there is "zero" costs then you are nowhere near as sound minded as presumed you was. You really have gone down the rabbit hole. 10% benefit is no where near enough justification for masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DeanoL said: Vaccination status might still impact the level of care the infected need though so there's still potential hospital numbers to worry about. At this stage surely the numbers of unvaccinated AND having never had the virus is incredibly small ? You still think its March 2020 🙂 Edited January 21 by Barry Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannybruck Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 10 minutes ago, DeanoL said: I think that's the crucial thing you're missing, the vast, vast majority of people don't really care about masks one way or the other. Like you said, most wear them when it's the rule, don't when not. The government basically see masks in public places as a zero-cost measure - the economy stays open, people just mask up and get on with it. I initially thought this but the reality is any "light touch" measures have real economic impact, it's just unseen. The Playbook leak from October that saw the economic report leak of a full Plan B (literal billions) made a point that even these sorts of interventions still mean people put off doing stuff, think twice about committing to things, maybe stay less time in certain places and therefore spend less money, etc. All of these people not behaving or making conscious decisions "normally' across 60 million people really does add up, both economically and socially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) 27 minutes ago, DeanoL said: I think that's the crucial thing you're missing, the vast, vast majority of people don't really care about masks one way or the other. I think this is the root cause of why you get so much wrong in regards to masks. You are just simply wrong on this. Read the post above from Janny. You don't care about masks so you think everyone else is fine with it. That isn't how the way the world works - that is called an echo chamber in your mind. Its funny I had a chuckle yesterday when reading my local news facebook group... They asked "Will you still wear a mask when plan B ends"... About 80% of the responses where YES! (same as last time we said masks where not longer law) Now when we speak in a few weeks do you think the numbers out there will be 80% ? Of course not - they where around 15% just before Plan B came back AND footfall will be UP. But people like you read all the "Yes" and declare the world don't mind masks. Always factor in this... People lie People say Yes to everyone else wearing masks and the don't do it themselves (that is what of the yes's really mean) The noisy minority Go out and have walk around sometime. Maybe explore a little further than your normal places because whatever you are seeing isn't whats happening on a wider scale. Post Plan B... Week 1 : masks will be around 60% Week 2: masks will be around 40% Week 3: masks will be back down to 15% Same as last time... Edited January 21 by Barry Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraybentos1 Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Ireland seeing sense and dropping restrictions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Big day for my kids on Saturday 🙂 After four failed attempts over the last two years they final get to perform their stage show at the Theatre 😄 Covid and restrictions wrecked two years of hard work, every time they tried to put the show on new restrictions stopped it, and finally they get to do it now. Happy tears last night after the dress rehearsal are a hell of a lot better than the sad tears we have had for the last two years 😄 Shit is getting better - if you let it 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoL Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, Barry Fish said: I think this is the root cause of why you get so much wrong in regards to masks. You are just simply wrong on this. Read the post above from Janny. You don't care about masks so you think everyone else is fine with it. That isn't how the way the world works - that is called an echo chamber in your mind. What if, just think about it for a moment, you're the one wrong on it, because you hate masks so think everyone else is the same, and there's an echo chamber in your mind? Just consider, that that might be a remote possibility? Edited January 21 by DeanoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoL Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 2 hours ago, jannybruck said: I initially thought this but the reality is any "light touch" measures have real economic impact, it's just unseen. The Playbook leak from October that saw the economic report leak of a full Plan B (literal billions) made a point that even these sorts of interventions still mean people put off doing stuff, think twice about committing to things, maybe stay less time in certain places and therefore spend less money, etc. All of these people not behaving or making conscious decisions "normally' across 60 million people really does add up, both economically and socially. Oh yeah, there's impact, but I don't think it's impact this government gives a shit about, which is what I was saying in my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, DeanoL said: What if, just think about it for a moment, you're the one wrong on it, because you hate masks so think everyone else is the same, and there's an echo chamber in your mind? Just consider, that that might be a remote possibility? For sure... but then you have data... and lots of it that prove me right... Janny has obviously seen similar data to me. But I guess unless i spoon feed it to you then you won't have it... and even if I did spoon feed it to you, you probably wouldn't have it... and so you go on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DeanoL said: Oh yeah, there's impact Hang on... Lets just stop right here and go back to you comment about zero cost... Like I said the other day, you can't even agree with yourself on what your opinion is lol Edited January 21 by Barry Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoL Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 1 minute ago, Barry Fish said: Hang on... Lets just stop right here and go back to you comment about zero cost... Like I said the other day, you can't even agree with yourself on what your opinion is lol No mate, you're just not reading my posts properly. You even stopped reading that one that explained exactly what I meant again for you, so you could have a pop. And honestly, you could be right, but the fact you get so angry when people even bring masks up, even though apparently everyone else thinks like you anyway so there's nothing to worry about, makes me even more convinced you're wrong. I'm not even in favour of masks. I think without social distancing they are borderline pointless. I was shocked that 10% figure you posted was so high. But when I want to do something, I just put a damn piece of cloth over my mouth and go do it, and so do all my friends, and we really don't care. I appreciate you struggle with masks, they're really uncomfortable for you and get you all upset, but maybe consider that's where most of your anger about the issue comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assorted Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 20 minutes ago, DeanoL said: No mate, you're just not reading my posts properly. You even stopped reading that one that explained exactly what I meant again for you, so you could have a pop. And honestly, you could be right, but the fact you get so angry when people even bring masks up, even though apparently everyone else thinks like you anyway so there's nothing to worry about, makes me even more convinced you're wrong. I'm not even in favour of masks. I think without social distancing they are borderline pointless. I was shocked that 10% figure you posted was so high. But when I want to do something, I just put a damn piece of cloth over my mouth and go do it, and so do all my friends, and we really don't care. I appreciate you struggle with masks, they're really uncomfortable for you and get you all upset, but maybe consider that's where most of your anger about the issue comes from. To be fair, I also saw your post calling it “zero” costs and got a bit upset, though I tend to not like getting into arguments, or even posting, on here. Though I appreciated you putting quotation marks around “zero,” it still felt you were inferring masks were worth it as an intervention if stopping 10% of cases and the zero you typed felt like you were minimizing their costs. I change my behaviors dramatically to avoid places that require masks, it’s a big deal to me. It’s possible this is an age issue and younger people have less issues with them? But @jannybruck has already written it better than I could in terms of the cumulative impact of people like me avoiding most activities that require masking. Where I am, NYC/USA, there is also a real problem with “experts” claiming masking has zero impact on children and schools with lots of gain. This is slowly (too slowly) being proven wrong with study after study, but another reason the word “zero” gets under my skin, because I see it written all the time by “experts” on Twitter defending things like school and child masking as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraybentos1 Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 These people are insane. Genuinely feel sorry for their kids. The worst ones imo are Patterson and that Kit Yates guy and the Doctor Oxford person. All have something to sell. The ultimate worst is Eric Feigl-Ding, the guy is a disgrace and he causes so much harm intentionally. Deepti is a fruit loop but don’t really think she’s a bad person just a bit nuts. Pagel probs the lest bad of the lot. At least at one point I’ve tried to see her spread good news even if it’s occasional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraybentos1 Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Get the government out by following and retweeting me 😂😂😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, DeanoL said: No mate, you're just not reading my posts properly. You even stopped reading that one that explained exactly what I meant again for you, so you could have a pop. And honestly, you could be right, but the fact you get so angry when people even bring masks up, even though apparently everyone else thinks like you anyway so there's nothing to worry about, makes me even more convinced you're wrong. I'm not even in favour of masks. I think without social distancing they are borderline pointless. I was shocked that 10% figure you posted was so high. But when I want to do something, I just put a damn piece of cloth over my mouth and go do it, and so do all my friends, and we really don't care. I appreciate you struggle with masks, they're really uncomfortable for you and get you all upset, but maybe consider that's where most of your anger about the issue comes from. Oh, id do it if it made a big difference. At the moment, cloth masks make such a minimal difference that id rather put my comfort first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, fraybentos1 said: These people are insane. Genuinely feel sorry for their kids. I feel sorry for the kids too. I try not to be too hard as I'm always drawn to this article from last year. We are blaming the wrong people: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/02/state-fear-ministers-used-covert-tactics-keep-scared-public/ Quote The daily diet of statistics on deaths, hospitalisations and Covid cases has been so effective that compliance with lockdown has gone far beyond what ministers expected. But the problem with fear, as one behavioural scientist said on Friday, is that “you can’t turn it on and off like a tap”. Whether frightening the public was a deliberate – or honest – tactic has become the subject of intense debate, and dozens of psychologists have now accused ministers of using “covert psychological strategies” to manipulate the public’s behaviour. They believe the Government, acting on the advice of behavioural experts, has emphasised the threat from Covid without putting the risks in sufficient context, leaving the country in “a state of heightened anxiety”. They are so concerned that the British public has been the subject of a mass experiment in the use of strategies that operate “below their level of awareness” that they have made a formal complaint to their professional body, which will now rule on whether government advisers have been guilty of a breach of ethics. One of the key pieces of evidence cited by those who have complained about “covert” tactics comes from a document prepared for the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) at the beginning of the pandemic a year ago. Dated March 22, the paper written by the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviours (SPI-B) stated: “A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened; it could be that they are reassured by the low death rate in their demographic group, although levels of concern may be rising … the perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging. I'm still disgusted something like this has gone on in our country Edited January 21 by lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, fraybentos1 said: These people are insane. Genuinely feel sorry for their kids. The worst ones imo are Patterson and that Kit Yates guy and the Doctor Oxford person. All have something to sell. The ultimate worst is Eric Feigl-Ding, the guy is a disgrace and he causes so much harm intentionally. Deepti is a fruit loop but don’t really think she’s a bad person just a bit nuts. Pagel probs the lest bad of the lot. At least at one point I’ve tried to see her spread good news even if it’s occasional. Its so sad... I do feel sorry for their kids... My kids lost two Birthdays each including my daughters 10th... Its was pretty shit but we had no choice. To think someone would choose not to do it is seriously messed up. Like someone just said above - the people who spread the fear to this level are the real bad people. Edited January 21 by Barry Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, zahidf said: Oh, id do it if it made a big difference. At the moment, cloth masks make such a minimal difference that id rather put my comfort first I don't think I have ever felt they made a difference but I did it until we got the vaccine and then the point and evidence just wasn't there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraybentos1 Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 17 minutes ago, Barry Fish said: Its so sad... I do feel sorry for their kids... My kids lost two Birthdays each including my daughters 10th... Its was pretty shit but we had no choice. To think someone would choose not to do it is seriously messed up. Like just said above - the people who spread the fear to this level are the real bad people. The worst part of covid for me was the feeling of being robbed of time. If i was 60 odd I wouldn’t give a fuck really cause I’d have done my stuff. I’m mid 20s and so much has Had to be put in ice for this for years now. It’s brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraybentos1 Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 France loosening restrictions including masks outdoors (😂😂😂) as of Feb 2nd despite recording over half a mil cases yday. Good stuff, planning to go to Paris in mid March 🙏🙏🙏 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Not a surprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 2 hours ago, fraybentos1 said: These people are insane. Genuinely feel sorry for their kids. The worst ones imo are Patterson and that Kit Yates guy and the Doctor Oxford person. All have something to sell. The ultimate worst is Eric Feigl-Ding, the guy is a disgrace and he causes so much harm intentionally. Deepti is a fruit loop but don’t really think she’s a bad person just a bit nuts. Pagel probs the lest bad of the lot. At least at one point I’ve tried to see her spread good news even if it’s occasional. CLASSIC DING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 10 minutes ago, zahidf said: Not a surprise Yeah what a shock lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 12 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said: The worst part of covid for me was the feeling of being robbed of time. If i was 60 odd I wouldn’t give a fuck really cause I’d have done my stuff. I’m mid 20s and so much has Had to be put in ice for this for years now. It’s brutal. During the pandemic there has been the overuse of the world selfish mainly directed at the young by the old. I think a lot of older people need to be a little more humble at the sacrifice given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 13 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said: France loosening restrictions including masks outdoors (😂😂😂) as of Feb 2nd despite recording over half a mil cases yday. Good stuff, planning to go to Paris in mid March 🙏🙏🙏 We was due to go Disneyland Paris until the did the whole mask outdoors thing which is a big no no obviously for us and then they doubled down on the vaccine passport for kids and ruled us out entirely lol unless we want to do daily testing which we don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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