efcfanwirral Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 It's mad that we've announced what we have this week while France are requiring boosters for most things including long distance trains and Austria are signing into law actual mandatory vaccinations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraybentos1 Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, zahidf said: A pleasant read. Here’s hoping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 IHME estimates suggest that increasing use of masks to 80% of the population, for example, will only reduce cumulative infections over the next 4 months by 10%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 The impacts of future SARS-CoV-2 transmission on health, however, will be less because of broad previous exposure to the virus, regularly adapted vaccines to new antigens or variants, the advent of antivirals, and the knowledge that the vulnerable can protect themselves during future waves when needed by using high-quality masks and physical distancing. In regards to future restrictions this has to be the overriding point surely specially the last bit... No need for general society to shut down ever again...More personal responsibility... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJS Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 10 minutes ago, Barry Fish said: ... No need for general society to shut down ever again... Never, ever, under any circumstances, Barry? I mean, I do hope you're right. I guess I don't have the same knowledge of what the future holds as you clearly do, Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraybentos1 Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 31 minutes ago, LJS said: Never, ever, under any circumstances, Barry? I mean, I do hope you're right. I guess I don't have the same knowledge of what the future holds as you clearly do, Barry. Think he means with regards to covid 19. In which case he is entirely correct 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) 33 minutes ago, LJS said: Never, ever, under any circumstances, Barry? I mean, I do hope you're right. I guess I don't have the same knowledge of what the future holds as you clearly do, Barry. Oh its you again, yeah i suppose if ebola rocks up then we might have to reconsider... Thanks yet again for your contribution. I look forward to tomorrow nights edition of LJS got board of the independence thread and wants to pick at Barrys posts 🙂 Edited January 21 by Barry Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Drakeford finally get rid of the ridiculous restrictions in Wales next friday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat2 Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 9 hours ago, Barry Fish said: IHME estimates suggest that increasing use of masks to 80% of the population, for example, will only reduce cumulative infections over the next 4 months by 10%. If it was deemed acceptable to go from 20000 cases a day to 100000 recently then it must also be acceptable to go from 20000 cases to 22000 by giving people all their freedoms back by ditching masks, especially the limited impact that increase in cases would have in hospitalisations and deaths compared to keeping them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 41 minutes ago, zahidf said: Drakeford finally get rid of the ridiculous restrictions in Wales next friday Still wont admit his restrictions did nothing but damage though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Covid test firm urges end to tests for travellers https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60063606 Even the test providers are saying its time to move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Schmitt Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 14 hours ago, efcfanwirral said: It's mad that we've announced what we have this week while France are requiring boosters for most things including long distance trains and Austria are signing into law actual mandatory vaccinations. yeah, but here mandatory vaccinations are a quick shot. government had water up to the neck in December with Delta and mandatory vaccinations seemed the only way out for them, especially with Omicron coming. it has not been planned very well as the legally basis is still controversial, many people from their own parties and also many experts are not for a mandatory thing and there will be problems with collected data of people in the first few months, so police and other forces can only make spot checks (like when driving too fast). so its a shaky thing (they have included a vaccination tombola now where every 10th vaccinated wins some money), i think it`s necessary, but there would have been other measures, more effective measures like pay for PCR tests, pay for hospital stays for the unvaccinated or some sort of taxes for the unvaccinated or tax relief for the fully vaccinated. so rather controversial here, and a feast for the right wings who claim the freedom for the simple people as they ask the people not to get vaccinated (but by the way many right wings leaders are already vaccinated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) In 12 month time can anyone really see the likes of Austria / France etc keeping this up ? The pursuit of the unvaccinated is largely pointless according to the report in the lancent... Quote expanding vaccination coverage in people who have not been vaccinated, or delivering third doses of COVID-19 vaccines—taken in the next weeks will have limited impact on the course of the omicron wave. Drakeford and his type keep saying they are following the science but it seems to me they are following a subset of science which stems from March 2020 and largely pushed by the Indy Sage types... The science has moved on... Edited January 21 by Barry Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraybentos1 Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Now that Devi is no longer accepted in the zero covid club I had a look at the replies to her tweet with her guardian article in it. There are some really unwell people out there who have totally lost the plot with this thing tbh. It cannot be normal to be that terrified and also put so so much faith in masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) 16 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said: Now that Devi is no longer accepted in the zero covid club I had a look at the replies to her tweet with her guardian article in it. There are some really unwell people out there who have totally lost the plot with this thing tbh. It cannot be normal to be that terrified and also put so so much faith in masks. Yeah just thought I would have a peak... The replies to this which she retweeted... A teacher replies and says she has avoided it for two years and now is certain to get it. It worries me a teacher could be so dumb. I wonder if she appreciates she may of had it asymptomatically already. Also - if she wants to protect herself from catch this forever she does have the option of wearing a N95 mask or better. It seems there are a lot of people in society who now require reprogramming. Edited January 21 by Barry Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Schmitt Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 9 minutes ago, Barry Fish said: In 12 month time can anyone really see the likes of Austria / France etc keeping this up ? The pursuit of the unvaccinated is largely pointless according to the report in the lancent... Drakeford and his type keep saying they are following the science but it seems to me they are following a subset of science which stems from March 2020 and largely pushed by the Indy Sage types... The science has moved on... Good point. The new omicron wave has changed the view on the mandatory thing, also by many experts. But on the other hand the mandatory vaccination for omicron has come far too late. All are saying the mandatory vaccination is for the next coming winter. Maybe it is in the bones here because this winter with all those lockdowns and restrictions (for the unvaccinated) was hardly bearable, especially not for tourist destinations (we are again high risk country for Germany). this winter season has been the worst one I think. and by the way one of our intellectual papers has this Pagel (together with Austrian Expert Ulrich Elling who was one of the first who warned about the devastating effects of omicron) on the front page and her forecast for a new far more worse variant, so media here knows how to keep people concerned, especially as our rollercoaster-wagon is still going upwards now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) More nice comments aimed at her for breaking ranks lol Edited January 21 by Barry Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 you hea5rd about the hong kong hamster cull, owners are fleeing to save their hamsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 3 minutes ago, Hannibal Schmitt said: Good point. The new omicron wave has changed the view on the mandatory thing, also by many experts. But on the other hand the mandatory vaccination for omicron has come far too late. All are saying the mandatory vaccination is for the next coming winter. Maybe it is in the bones here because this winter with all those lockdowns and restrictions (for the unvaccinated) was hardly bearable, especially not for tourist destinations (we are again high risk country for Germany). this winter season has been the worst one I think. and by the way one of our intellectual papers has this Pagel (together with Austrian Expert Ulrich Elling who was one of the first who warned about the devastating effects of omicron) on the front page and her forecast for a new far more worse variant, so media here knows how to keep people concerned, especially as our rollercoaster-wagon is still going upwards now. Too many self declared experts who carry no accountability for the things they say sadly. When Whitty and Valance say something they are government employed and are accountable for anything they say. When Pagel and her band of merry idiots says something they are accountable to nobody sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Deepti will be on today's FAKE SAGE briefing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Fish Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 4 minutes ago, zahidf said: Deepti will be on today's FAKE SAGE briefing I guess its back to long covid and stop killing our kids ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efcfanwirral Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Hannibal Schmitt said: Good point. The new omicron wave has changed the view on the mandatory thing, also by many experts. But on the other hand the mandatory vaccination for omicron has come far too late. All are saying the mandatory vaccination is for the next coming winter. Maybe it is in the bones here because this winter with all those lockdowns and restrictions (for the unvaccinated) was hardly bearable, especially not for tourist destinations (we are again high risk country for Germany). this winter season has been the worst one I think. and by the way one of our intellectual papers has this Pagel (together with Austrian Expert Ulrich Elling who was one of the first who warned about the devastating effects of omicron) on the front page and her forecast for a new far more worse variant, so media here knows how to keep people concerned, especially as our rollercoaster-wagon is still going upwards now. If its for next winter, have they not (without saying it) made it mandatory for at least a 4th, possibly a 5th dose? Because whatever you take now will be long gone by winter based on the waning data? Edited January 21 by efcfanwirral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Schmitt Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 11 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said: If its for next winter, have they not (without saying it) made it mandatory for at least a 4th, possibly a 5th dose? Because whatever you take now will be long gone by winter based on the waning data? Yeah, that is not totally clear. As already stated it`s a quick shot. I assume it could be also mandatory for the 4th or 5th dose. They already cut the validity of 2 doses to 6 months (from 9 months), so that you loose your status as vaccinated after this period, so in theory you are out of public life with that - but that`s the theory - I have been to the biggest electrical store some days ago and you are fully controlled at the entrance, on the other hand stores like H&M do not control anything here. But government has not made it clear until now as they have dodged that question, i think that they are going as far as they have visibility (as they now are fully on all what the experts have to say) - with other doses it seems to far away, especially if it states that vaccination would be useless (so they also made some clauses that they can cancel this new mandatory thing as things go into another direction). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoL Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 17 hours ago, efcfanwirral said: It's mad that we've announced what we have this week while France are requiring boosters for most things including long distance trains and Austria are signing into law actual mandatory vaccinations. They're just trying to get to the level of vaccination we're already at voluntarily though. 12 hours ago, Barry Fish said: IHME estimates suggest that increasing use of masks to 80% of the population, for example, will only reduce cumulative infections over the next 4 months by 10%. It's really interesting you post that as an argument against masks, despite it saying that masks make a difference. I think that's the crucial thing you're missing, the vast, vast majority of people don't really care about masks one way or the other. Like you said, most wear them when it's the rule, don't when not. The government basically see masks in public places as a zero-cost measure - the economy stays open, people just mask up and get on with it. I'm surprised the figures are that high, to be honest, and I don't think we should keep them, but it's an easy argument to make that cutting infections by 10% is worth the "zero" cost of having masks. 2 hours ago, Barry Fish said: In 12 month time can anyone really see the likes of Austria / France etc keeping this up ? The pursuit of the unvaccinated is largely pointless according to the report in the lancent... Vaccination status might still impact the level of care the infected need though so there's still potential hospital numbers to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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