When will covid end ? Please be nice and respectful to others

[mcshed]

3 hours ago, BobWillis2 said:

You’re missing the point again. Prolonging the pandemic but not significantly changing the outcome is completely counter productive. 
 

In particular the decision to close schools and limit young peoples social life made virtually zero difference to hospital rates and deaths but delayed their exposure to the virus and in fact probably it MORE dangerous for them to mix with the elderly when restrictions were relaxed as they were more likely to be infected as they had no immunity. 

 

I do get your point I'm arguing that the delays achieved by Lockdown March 2020 and Lockdown January 2021 did significantly change the outcome. As without Lockdown one with no natural immunity we would have been triaging patients leading to significantly worse outcomes and Lockdown 2 we were jabbing huge numbers of people so slowing infections meant people catching it post vaccine rather than before which looks like 90-odd% reduction in hospitalisations so again significantly worse outcomes without the lockdown.

I do also agree that closing the schools may have done more harm than good and detailed analysis of the impacts of all different kinds of measures needs to be done so we are better able to react the next time there is a global pandemic as I'm sure we have made huge mistakes.

[Leyrulion]

30 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-59920379

I am finding this baffling...

Regardless of what anyone thinks about the rights or wrong of entry requirements to various countries its pretty dam clear that you MUST be vaccinated to enter Australia and previous infection is not good enough. 

I can only presume Djokovic was looking to cause this problem by traveling as his lawyers are now arguing something which is clearly not in the rules.

And this thread showing that if he did indeed get a positive test he didn't give a fuck about anyone else.

 

https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/1479737150967107586?s=20

 

 

[Hannibal Schmitt]

On 1/8/2022 at 3:08 PM, Barry Fish said:

Austria now requiring the booster...

Caught out a friend who is going snowboarding next week - not now

I think that in addition to the booster also a PCR test (valid for 48 hours) is mandatory for people from high risk countries.

But its rather typical for our confusing health department that they have not changed that until now as it has been put in place on 25th december for countries where cases were high at that time (UK, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway).

[DeanoL]

 

22 hours ago, lost said:

Difficult to say. Most of the excess deaths during this pandemic happened during that period but that's mainly due to oldies with covid being moved out of hospital and back into nursing homes and the rush to ventilate everyone with covid. 

Something similar happened in Stockholm hospitals but if you take Malmo and the surrounding area during that period who didn't lock down vs say Copenhagen who did with similar population sizes. Copenhagen had the higher death rate.

There were as many excess deaths in private homes as in care homes.

[DeanoL]

5 hours ago, BobWillis2 said:

It only makes sense to prolong the pandemic is you are drastically changing the outcome of it. 

You don't think vaccines drastically reduce chances of death?

[DeanoL]

58 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Austria now requiring the booster...

Caught out a friend who is going snowboarding next week - not now

Could still get it now? Doesn't seem to be a time limit on it?

[efcfanwirral]

33 minutes ago, BobWillis2 said:

Isn’t it so that there’s no overlap of symptoms that could be attributed as a vaccine side effect? 

Yep and I don't see how that would or should change just to get numbers up. Good thing is the bottom of the article response says that too. 

[DeanoL]

34 minutes ago, mcshed said:

I do get your point I'm arguing that the delays achieved by Lockdown March 2020 and Lockdown January 2021 did significantly change the outcome. As without Lockdown one with no natural immunity we would have been triaging patients leading to significantly worse outcomes and Lockdown 2 we were jabbing huge numbers of people so slowing infections meant people catching it post vaccine rather than before which looks like 90-odd% reduction in hospitalisations so again significantly worse outcomes without the lockdown.

I do also agree that closing the schools may have done more harm than good and detailed analysis of the impacts of all different kinds of measures needs to be done so we are better able to react the next time there is a global pandemic as I'm sure we have made huge mistakes.

The problem is how far you go with the secondary impacts - yeah, mental health and kids education will also have suffered...but by the same argument the mass fast-forwarding of scientific work on MRNA vaccines means that long term we'll probably have saved more lives than we actually lose to COVID as the cure for cancer and other diseases is bought forward about five years.

[stuartbert two hats]

23 hours ago, lost said:

When we think back to Captain Tom who died from covid. I believe he couldn't take the vaccine due to age/underlying health conditions. I do wonder how many are in his position rather than being anti-vaxxers that they are so fragile that both the vaccine and covid could kill them. It doesn't make any other sense why so many 80+ are unvaccinated.

Also on a subject that isn't very nice. I know assisted suicide isn't legal in this country. The people who say have dementia that's progressed to the point where they are locked in their own bodies unable to move or communicate, do we legally have to vaccinate these people or do we let nature take its course?

If the person in question is unable to communicate their wishes, it's up to whoever has medical power of attorney.

[lost]

19 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 

There were as many excess deaths in private homes as in care homes.

Proportionally. Remember less than 1% of people live in care homes. They took out about 5% of the care home population in less than two months purely "with" covid.

Many in private home were cardiovascular. People thinking they either were not allowed to leave the house to goto hospital or too scared to after the messages on tv.

Edited January 8, 2022 by lost

[stuartbert two hats]

Lockdowns can still make sense in a vaccinated population for the original justification - flattening the curve to prevent healthcare from being overwhelmed.

If Omicron was causing severe disease in the numbers that Alpha was in a vaccinated population, then a lockdown would have been justified to prevent excess death, even if it would be frustrating.

However, it wasn't, so it isn't.

[LJS]

On 1/7/2022 at 1:20 AM, zahidf said:

So.... you're saying Scotland should ban gigs and crowds at sports events for the next 3 weeks 

Not necessarily. I am saying these are difficult decisions and I'm bloody glad I don't have to make them.

I am very suspicious of those who claim to know with absolute certainty what the right thing to do is.

On 1/7/2022 at 7:21 AM, Barry Fish said:

Scotland and Wales have been  worse than England for quite a while now have t they?

https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/

Wales has. Scotland hasn't.

[LJS]

6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

What that graph tells me is neither Scotland or Wales have really done any better (and at key points much worse) than England regardless of their over cautious (political) approach.  

SNP +10 - Idiots

[Fuzzy Afro]

So either Djokovic has faked a positive PCR in order to try and circumvent Australia’s vaccine requirement (only to later find out that the Aussies don’t accept natural immunity) or he genuinely had covid and failed to self-isolate and attended a children’s event.

 

What a tosser. 

[JoeyT]

Peaked?

[zahidf]

 

[zahidf]

Just now, JoeyT said:

Peaked?

WhAt AboUT LonG CovID?

[JoeyT]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

WhAt AboUT LonG CovID?

I’ll keep my cards close to my chest on that one… 👀

 

[zahidf]

20 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I’ll keep my cards close to my chest on that one… 👀

 

Is your only critique rhe fact that the evidence is out of date?

[zahidf]

[Fuzzy Afro]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Thank god.

 

Asymptomatic testing is an addictive drug. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Long covid, or as I call it, the latest self-diagnosed bollocks outbreak mainly suffered by whoever fancies some time off work. 

[efcfanwirral]

21 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Presume this also plays a part in coercing people to get their boosters, I doubt the covid passes will be phased out 

[efcfanwirral]

The more i think about it the more I think its about encouraging vaccine uptake, and will be coupled with removal of the testing option for anyone with less than 3 vaccines. We're such an outlier in this

[Justiceforcedave]

I'll be stocking up. Got a lot of travelling to do this year... a little freebie test before I fork out for a paid one is always preferable. Just in case.