When will covid end ? Please be nice and respectful to others

[Ozanne]

Vaccination update:

[5co77ie]

3 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Losing you sense of smell or taste (for example and counts as long covid)...  for 12 weeks or more...  doesn't keep people off work..

 

no it doesn't - long-covid is a fatigue syndrome similar to ME - not losing your sense of smell.

 

It has two main groups of symptoms

1. mainly respiratory - ie difficulty in breathing particularly while moving.

2. affecting organs of the body - particularly including the heart, brain and the gut.

Causing: fatigue, disorientation, headache, heart palpitations or increased heartbeat, and pins and needles, numbness and ‘brain fog’, and loss of cognitive process.

[efcfanwirral]

1 hour ago, 5co77ie said:

But as I say "taking the edge off" is not a full on cure - and for Melvin to be calling the Pandemic over is to seriously misjudge where we are, we are not there yet.

I'm honestly not sure there will ever be a full on cure. As was said above, the measures we choose to implement now could well be permanent. Or at least for every winter, which is where my thinking is going (as always, what i think will happen, not what I think should happen).

I think it'd take colossal balls from the government not to panic and ride out this entire winter

[5co77ie]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

I'm honestly not sure there will ever be a full on cure. As was said above, the measures we choose to implement now could well be permanent. Or at least for every winter, which is where my thinking is going (as always, what i think will happen, not what I think should happen).

I think it'd take colossal balls from the government not to panic and ride out this entire winter

I am firmly of the opinion that with the "edge taken off", with 200 Long-Covid Clinics planned (currently around 70 open) with £18.5 million already allocated for Long Covid research and £40 million earmarked for therapy development, a new booster and flu jab proposal, although it has been moved from September to a slated start in December (except for cohorts 1-4) mybe for 12+ vaccines to be administered first, and a public wary in the main and observing social distancing measures (this industry aside), my guess is the expected and much rumoured in NHS circles September 'circuit breaker' won't happen and BoJo will try and ride it out for as long as he can - I expect the "herd immunity" narrative to be replaced with 'individual immunity" and restrictions to be as minimal as possible, Boris would rather the "bodies in the streets" than put personal freedoms on the line again. If he wants to stay Tory leader he won't be ushering in any more lockdowns.

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

I am firmly of the opinion that with the "edge taken off", with 200 Long-Covid Clinics planned (currently around 70 open) with £18.5 million already allocated for Long Covid research and £40 million earmarked for therapy development, a new booster and flu jab proposal, although it has been moved from September to a slated start in December (except for cohorts 1-4) mybe for 12+ vaccines to be administered first, and a public wary in the main and observing social distancing measures (this industry aside), my guess is the expected and much rumoured in NHS circles September 'circuit breaker' won't happen and BoJo will try and ride it out for as long as he can - I expect the "herd immunity" narrative to be replaced with 'individual immunity" and restrictions to be as minimal as possible, Boris would rather the "bodies in the streets" than put personal freedoms on the line again. If he wants to stay Tory leader he won't be ushering in any more lockdowns.

And he'd be right to not lockdown again as it stands. We aren't in a 'body's in the street' type situation as it stands. It would be our precious personal freedoms vs a nasty but manageable disease.

 

As seen in Wales, a 2 week circuit breaker would do sod all.

Any lockdowns now won't be  for a specific purpose. We have the vaccine, so just get boosters if needed and crack on really.

Edited August 26, 2021 by zahidf

[zahidf]

20 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I'm honestly not sure there will ever be a full on cure. As was said above, the measures we choose to implement now could well be permanent. Or at least for every winter, which is where my thinking is going (as always, what i think will happen, not what I think should happen).

I think it'd take colossal balls from the government not to panic and ride out this entire winter

They'll implement a vaccine passport for gigs first and encourage social distancing. Unless furlough gets extended again they won't order anything closed thankfully.

[lost]

15 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I'm honestly not sure there will ever be a full on cure. As was said above, the measures we choose to implement now could well be permanent. Or at least for every winter, which is where my thinking is going (as always, what i think will happen, not what I think should happen).

I think the guy in charge of Iceland's response recently said 10 to 15 years was a possibility. Apparently Spanish flu took a decade to mutate into something as deadly as normal flu. I haven't a clue though if corona viruses change at the same rate as influenzas' plus if the lab leak hypothesis turns out to be correct I would think all bets are off as we've then nothing to compare this to.

There is the argument that at some point the economic cost will become too great. We've already thrown £400bn at this, our debt has already exceeded our GDP and you can only see interest rates on that debt rising from here. If you look at Thailand though where my mate currently is, average salaries in Phuket were £1000 a month when this started. They have recently touched £50 (I haven't missed a zero there) Most of the tourist areas resemble refugee camps with make shift dwellings and queues for food handouts and yet the government still sees the alternative of opening up as worse.

 

[5co77ie]

4 minutes ago, lost said:

 If you look at Thailand though where my mate currently is, average salaries in Phuket were £1000 a month when this started. They have recently touched £50 (I haven't missed a zero there) Most of the tourist areas resemble refugee camps with make shift dwellings and queues for food handouts and yet the government still sees the alternative of opening up as worse.

 

As someone who grew up in Asia Pacific I have to say they're sensible to wait until they know what they're dealing with there's some nasty tropical diseases they've come up against in the past.

 

[squirrelarmy]

46 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

Causing: fatigue, disorientation, headache, heart palpitations or increased heartbeat, and pins and needles, numbness and ‘brain fog’, and loss of cognitive process.

I’ve had a lot of these over the last year or so in the time since I presumed to have had Covid.
 

The trouble is that I’ve had a lot of other stuff going on that has the same symptoms so no idea if it’s long Covid or not.

I’m wondering if they can develop a test for it that can check for a trace of the virus in the system. Would probably have to be a GP prescribed blood test though

[zahidf]

Not prepared to do anything more to ‘stop covid’ I wasted over a year of my life. Everyone’s now been vaccinated and immune as they’re going to get. That’s it. I’m not doing anything else.

[zahidf]

Never trust the pigs.

 

 

[JoeyT]

7 hours ago, zahidf said:

Not prepared to do anything more to ‘stop covid’ I wasted over a year of my life. Everyone’s now been vaccinated and immune as they’re going to get. That’s it. I’m not doing anything else.

My thoughts mirror this.

I personally don’t know anyone who has a differing point of view on it either no matter what a % of people who post on here might try and have us believe!

[zahidf]

 

[5co77ie]

16 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

He is not

He thinks when long covid is referring to people that have the most severe symptoms when in reality its a catch all term for any covid symptom that persists after infection - 12 weeks is usually the point they deem it "long" and the vast vast majority of people don't have symptoms beyond 6 months and that most people don't have anything other than a loss of smell and taste for example.   A small handful do have worse symptoms.  Not the claimed 10 million for sure.

Its being misused by many organisations like Indy Sage and anti government types to try and make out we are going have millions suffering from some pretty nasty stuff post covid.  And its simply scaremongering lies backed up with no facts or indeed evidence. 

I am getting quite annoyed to see people doing this being held up as some sort of fountain of knowledge instead of being called out for talking bollocks.  Indy Sage for example.

I think it's you who is trying to muddy the waters - your list includes a raft of secondary symptoms - you won't be referred to a Long Covid clinic if your only symptom is a loss of taste or smell. It's more than a small handful (for reference it's a lot more than ME)

 

I'm not a fountain of knowledge - my job involves writing specialist articles on and referring those needing treatment for mental and physical conditions (not just Long Covid - everything from PTSD to menopause) recommending treatment centres and specialist practitioners.

I have no interest in Government persee you only have to look at how they've dealt with the climate crisis to know they have failed us, and that's coming form a person who has worked with the Transition Network for the last decade - I can say I'm well beyond Government led solutions and focus wholly on community solutions - I mena I don't see a Green Government in charge - at least not at national level.

 

Here forinstance is the recommended guidance for GPs (release at the end of last year):

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/respiratory/gps-should-consider-long-covid-referral-after-just-four-weeks-says-final-nice-guideline/

Presumably the Lancet are talking this bollox you mention too?

>>>>>>> https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01900-0/fulltext

 

For ease I include The Guardian's precis:

Half of Covid hospitalised patients still have symptoms a year later, study finds

Fatigue and shortness of breath still afflict many patients a year after their hospitalisation for Covid-19, according to a Chinese study calling for a better understanding of the pandemic’s long-term health effects.

About half of patients discharged from hospital for Covid still suffer from at least one persistent symptom – most often fatigue or muscle weakness – after 12 months, said the study published in British medical journal the Lancet today, as reported by Agence France-Presse.

The research, the largest yet on the condition known as “long Covid”, added that one in three patients still have shortness of breath a year after their diagnosis. That number is even higher in patients hit more severely by the illness.

The Lancet said in an editorial published with the study:

With no proven treatments or even rehabilitation guidance, long Covid affects people’s ability to resume normal life and their capacity to work.

The study shows that for many patients, full recovery from Covid-19 will take more than 1 year.

The study followed nearly 1,300 people hospitalised for Covid between January and May 2020 in the central Chinese city of Wuhan – the first place affected by a pandemic that has since infected 214 million people worldwide, killing more than 4 million.

The share of observed patients with at least one symptom decreased from 68% after six months to 49% after 12 months.

Respiratory discomfort increased from 26% of patients after six months to 30% after 12 months, it said.

It found affected women were 43% more likely than affected men to suffer from fatigue or persistent muscle weakness, and twice as likely to be diagnosed with anxiety or depression.

But it said 88% of patients who worked before their diagnosis had returned to their jobs a year later.

The study adds to previous research that warned authorities in different countries they must be prepared to provide long-term support to health workers and patients affected by Covid.

“Long Covid is a modern medical challenge of the first order,” the editorial said, calling for more research to understand the condition and better care for patients who suffer from it.

[5co77ie]

11 hours ago, zahidf said:

Not prepared to do anything more to ‘stop covid’ I wasted over a year of my life. Everyone’s now been vaccinated and immune as they’re going to get. That’s it. I’m not doing anything else.

We are moving to an age of individual responsibility - it's entirely up to each individual how they go forward. If no one in your friends or family interaction circle has cancer or a condition which prevents them having the jab - you are welcome to proceed as you wish. If they do then you move to a position of 'individual responsibility' there's no need to prevent anything.

We have moved from Government saying the "vaccines break the chain" to the "vaccines take the edge off" - but there's no reason to do "anything else". The Pandemic is likely to last at least another 2 years - and we have to accept that it will at times cause disruption in our lives, or more likely the lives of those who have always been in the "most at risk" category.

[DeanoL]

11 hours ago, zahidf said:

Not prepared to do anything more to ‘stop covid’ I wasted over a year of my life. Everyone’s now been vaccinated and immune as they’re going to get. That’s it. I’m not doing anything else.

Well I'm going to keep washing my hands and you can't stop me!

[5co77ie]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

 

En række tiltag for at overvåge epidemien vil dog fortsætte, skriver Magnus Heunicke på Twitter.

- Vi fortsætter med en stærk epidemiovervågning, test, sekventering, spildevandstest mm., en effektiv vaccinationsudrulning og en parathed til at sætte ind, skulle det blive nødvendigt, skriver han.

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Well I'm going to keep washing my hands and you can't stop me!

Ha! i washed my hands pre-pandemic anyway....

 

And to clarify, i will stay at home if i test positive! So i will do the minimum

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

En række tiltag for at overvåge epidemien vil dog fortsætte, skriver Magnus Heunicke på Twitter.

- Vi fortsætter med en stærk epidemiovervågning, test, sekventering, spildevandstest mm., en effektiv vaccinationsudrulning og en parathed til at sætte ind, skulle det blive nødvendigt, skriver han.

oh, monitoring it doesnt effect day to day lives though

[Fuzzy Afro]

14 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

We are moving to an age of individual responsibility - it's entirely up to each individual how they go forward. If no one in your friends or family interaction circle has cancer or a condition which prevents them having the jab - you are welcome to proceed as you wish. If they do then you move to a position of 'individual responsibility' there's no need to prevent anything.

We have moved from Government saying the "vaccines break the chain" to the "vaccines take the edge off" - but there's no reason to do "anything else". The Pandemic is likely to last at least another 2 years - and we have to accept that it will at times cause disruption in our lives, or more likely the lives of those who have always been in the "most at risk" category.

WTF are you talking about? I know plenty of people with cancer who’ve had the jab. 

[zahidf]

Tbh, if this was the death toll predicted last year from Covid, we would have done sod all restrictions wise

[steviewevie]

17 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Well I'm going to keep washing my hands and you can't stop me!

I am binning the hand washing but will continue with the social distancing.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Tbh, if this was the death toll predicted last year from Covid, we would have done sod all restrictions wise

If Boris Johnson is the arbiter of what is acceptable then we really are fucked.

[lost]

Makes sense I guess. Was it 60k excess deaths in 2018 when the NHS was overloaded from aussie flu? Therefore i'm guessing 50k is the ball park number the NHS can handle.

[zahidf]

Having a go at the vaccine seems to have consequences.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by zahidf