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Football 2021/2022


jyoung
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5 hours ago, The Nal said:

Does matter. Don't rule out the Saudis using the club to appoint dodgy business partners as managers and directors as sweeteners for other business deals, putting mates in just for the craic a la Gary Neville at Valencia, using the club to hide money and so on. 

"With a deep appreciation for the Newcastle community"

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The idea that Mbappe, Haaland and Lewandowski are coming in January followed by a load of Galacticos and Zidane next summer is naive.

Serious job ahead to even stay in the league this season. Abysmal squad. 

What like Joe Kinnear as manager and DOF, Dennis Wise as DOF and other mates that Ashley hired during his time?

 

The idea that Mbappe and the likes are coming has been brought up by the media, most Geordies I've seen bring it up is clearly tongue in cheek.

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At the end of the day, Bruce's form just tailed off big time. I'm willing to accept he was OK in his first season, given he arrived halfway through pre-season and had Newcastle pretty much safe even before lockdown suspended the league in March 2020. But since last December, it's been alarmingly poor. Covid and injuries haven't helped but results and performances have mainly been poor, with some truly atrocious performances along the way, and it was clear he was just becoming a distraction that had lost parts of the dressing room. He kinda got lucky getting us 12th last year thanks to a late run out of keeping with the 3 months before, and this season's just been crap - worryingly so, given this was a fairly generous looking opening (certainly compared to 2018 when we got most of the big 6 in the first 2 months).

I know it's easy to slag off the fans but I don't think the Bruce Out stuff ever got as wildly over the top as the Sack Pardew stuff in early 2014, and I seem to recall Aston Villa's fans were just as excessive in wanting him gone (even moreso when that fan turned up with a cabbage just to lob at him in one of his last games). I appreciate Benitez's replacement was going to find it tough, but I'm pretty sure Bruce was something like 10th choice and was given an absurd contract with a guaranteed multi-million pay-off to leave Sheffield Wednesday to come to SJP, which did feel like it was out of desperation. Sarcastically sniping at Benitez, Eddie Howe, fans and the media didn't help.

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5 hours ago, The Nal said:

The idea that Mbappe, Haaland and Lewandowski are coming in January followed by a load of Galacticos and Zidane next summer is naive.

Serious job ahead to even stay in the league this season. Abysmal squad. 

When Mike Ashley first brought Newcastle back in 2007, I distinctly recall us being linked with Galactico style signings then - there were links with Samuel Eto'o, Ronaldinho, Deco, Raul and a few other big names shortly after the takeover was finished. We got an over-the-hill Mark Viduka, a post-injury Alan Smith, and centre-backs Cacapa and David Rozehnal, neither of whom did that well. Wouldn't be the first time expectations of going straight for the big names fails to fly tbh.

We have to earn the right to be attractive to superstar players and that won't be the case just yet. I'm aware some will gladly play up for the cameras or social media likes and demand we immediately sign Mbappe and/or Haaland, but that wouldn't really be right for our current hole. Imo a good window would include upgrades at centre-back, somebody for left-back who isn't an out of position winger, and maybe a new creative central midfielder seeing as Jonjo Shelvey is doing his best to prove himself unreliable to build a team around.

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3 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

I think you’ll find the Chinese have tightened the purse strings at Molineux. Look at their net spend in the last year or so and add that to the cancellation of ground expansion plans. Not the endless money pit they liked to portray a couple of seasons back. 

Yeah by all accounts Fosun want out.

Even with their millions spent and dodgy Mendes connections they have still barely made a scratch in the upper reaches of the PL.

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2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

It's a different time though. Chelsea takeover was nearly 20 years ago, City 13 years ago. I think as a society people are more aware of these things, social media certainly very different. I think the criticism Newcastle fans have taken for being willing to take the cash and ignore the human rights is no different to what any other club would have had in 2021. Also I think it's a stretch comparing Abrahamovic and the Saudis, even though I accept the former isn't a great person.

I think the criticism is ignoring the fact that the Saudis are taking advantage of how the situation at Newcastle was, which engineers greater support for them. I don't think any fans that have welcomed in the new regime are right to, but I can empathise with the feeling of relief at Ashley going. 

Awareness and emotion aren't the same thing. I think it's important to recognise that generally, and not attack people for the latter.

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19 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think the criticism is ignoring the fact that the Saudis are taking advantage of how the situation at Newcastle was, which engineers greater support for them. I don't think any fans that have welcomed in the new regime are right to, but I can empathise with the feeling of relief at Ashley going. 

Awareness and emotion aren't the same thing. I think it's important to recognise that generally, and not attack people for the latter.

I disagree. I think (sadly) any group of fans would act exactly the same to these mega rich people coming in. My experience tells me that football fans will happily turn a blind eye when it suits them, no team are any better or worse for this.

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24 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think the criticism is ignoring the fact that the Saudis are taking advantage of how the situation at Newcastle was, which engineers greater support for them. I don't think any fans that have welcomed in the new regime are right to, but I can empathise with the feeling of relief at Ashley going. 

Awareness and emotion aren't the same thing. I think it's important to recognise that generally, and not attack people for the latter.

That's different to dressing up in Arab clothes though 

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1 hour ago, zahidf said:

BRUCEIN for Utd. Know the club, is experienced and they need a new manager bounce.

I mean, at 2-0 to Atalanta, you did ponder if this was pushing Man United closer to losing faith in Ole, before he got away with another comeback.

Liverpool at the weekend might be an interesting one given that pressure cooker environment.

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3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I disagree. I think (sadly) any group of fans would act exactly the same to these mega rich people coming in. My experience tells me that football fans will happily turn a blind eye when it suits them, no team are any better or worse for this.

 

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

You would get that with any club though. By far the biggest group of fans are those who are willing to be bought, but will show a bit of dignity about it. The tea towel wearers and the boycotters are both small minorities.

I largely agree with both these points. I think the group that are turning a blindly eye or mildly accepting them are larger because of the emotional thing of Ashley.

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12 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Arteta calls Bruce one of the most important managers England has had in the last 100 years.

 

What's going on? This is getting very weird now.

Ignoring if I feel Bruce has been poorly treated or is an awful manager, what the fuck has Arteta got to do with it? 

Just another in a long line of excellent players who have been given jobs they don’t have the credentials for and go on to fail badly. 

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1 minute ago, TheGayTent said:

Ignoring if I feel Bruce has been poorly treated or is an awful manager, what the fuck has Arteta got to do with it? 

Just another in a long line of excellent players who have been given jobs they don’t have the credentials for and go on to fail badly. 

Because for some odd reason the media are in love with Steve Bruce and all managers are being asked about the sacking.

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On 10/18/2021 at 8:13 PM, kaosmark2 said:

The squad he inherited from Sir Bobby was great. Consistent top 5 finishes, average age 25 even with Shearer as the main striker. Then Souness drives out Bellamy, Jenas, Woodgate, Dyer, Viana, Robert, signs a load of aging dross, and institutes a training regime that injures everyone else.

Thinking about it, Steve Bruce was offered the Newcastle job in 2004 when Bobby Robson left but turned it down to stay at Birmingham City and saw us get Souness in to get things totally wrong. I think that would've been a better time to move imo - came when he'd had 3 solid years at Birmingham to get them from the second tier to the Premier League top 10, and in timeline was before his relegation with Birmingham, a spell at Sunderland that was pretty much identical to his mediocre return at Newcastle and the bizarre thing of him getting a cabbage thrown at him by Aston Villa fans, which imo was way worse than anything Mags fans have done in calling Bruce Out this season. By 2019 he was kinda damaged goods.

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1 hour ago, WS_Jack_III said:

What abuse has Steve Bruce got that everyone keeps banging on about? 

 

F*ck me, you'd think our fans made a sign saying "we know where you live, don't sign" or something.

I seem to recall that's how some Everton fans welcomed Benitez. Though tbf that was also covered in an uncomplimentary manner.

1 hour ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Arteta calls Bruce one of the most important managers England has had in the last 100 years.

 

What's going on? This is getting very weird now.

Yeah I saw that. Based on that pretty generous take, you'd think Newcastle had just sacked the second coming of Alf Ramsey and Brian Clough rolled into one rather than somebody whose best PL career finish was 9th and who once said he didn't believe in tactics.

I can believe some fans went overboard in criticism of Bruce or were rude to him in public. Every fanbase has its people that seem to take glee in crossing the line or who go too far (i.e. that Villa fan with the cabbage, which was pretty rude). But this has been slightly surreal, almost like somehow Newcastle couldn't do better than a man who has presided over no win in the opening 8 games and who got much closer to relegation last season than the final position suggested.

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