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Artists payments for Glastonbury


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1 hour ago, nikkic said:

Ed Sheeran busked for years before he got his big break.

I wonder if acts that don't get paid for their appearances should be able to pass the hat around the crowd after to cover their costs at least? (This isn't a question directly aimed at @nikkic but the busking point made me think)

I saw one of those motorcycle wall of death things at bestival once and they encouraged people to make contributions at the end of their performances; a hundred people putting in the small change in their pockets every hour must have more than covered the fuel, insurance etc. Whether or not they had permission from the festival to ask for donations is another question.

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11 minutes ago, Tommy101 said:

I wonder if acts that don't get paid for their appearances should be able to pass the hat around the crowd after to cover their costs at least? (This isn't a question directly aimed at @nikkic but the busking point made me think)

I saw one of those motorcycle wall of death things at bestival once and they encouraged people to make contributions at the end of their performances; a hundred people putting in the small change in their pockets every hour must have more than covered the fuel, insurance etc. Whether or not they had permission from the festival to ask for donations is another question.

That actually happened (sort of) first time I saw The Beths in Brighton.  It was technically a free gig upstairs in a pub, but they were taking voluntary contributions to help cover their costs.

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14 minutes ago, Tommy101 said:

I wonder if acts that don't get paid for their appearances should be able to pass the hat around the crowd after to cover their costs at least? (This isn't a question directly aimed at @nikkic but the busking point made me think)

I saw one of those motorcycle wall of death things at bestival once and they encouraged people to make contributions at the end of their performances; a hundred people putting in the small change in their pockets every hour must have more than covered the fuel, insurance etc. Whether or not they had permission from the festival to ask for donations is another question.

I wonder if that is allowed on their license. I think buskers are meant to have licenses to perform. I know a lot sell merch and that is allowed and is probably the best way of people being able to contribute. I have done this a few times. Artists may just need to get cleverer about selling merch at a lower cost point like badges etc. I have a few times refused change when buying merch to help them out a bit more and I know they have been grateful for that. 

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2 hours ago, gigpusher said:

I'm very shocked at that. I know the headliners don't get paid but I thought that the other artists were paid. Unless some artists opt for a full 5 day ticket in lieu of payment I'd get that as it would still count as a payment and one I'd happily accept if I was in a small band. 

each stage has its own budget, from whivch its meant to do its whole line-up... 

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I'm a freelancer so generally I argue that artists should always be paid and exposure doesn't count but in music I don't have much of a leg to stand on as I use Spotify almost exclusively to listen to music (except for the 1 or 2 records I buy). I argue this gets me into bands which gets me to the gigs and buying merch... Which isnt that different to the exposure thing. 

Interestingly they do talk further about this in the thread (which is worth a read) 

Screenshot_20210413-112210.thumb.png.e9911b851d7a3515c9f2e4bda9d624f6.png

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5 minutes ago, priest17 said:

I'm a freelancer so generally I argue that artists should always be paid and exposure doesn't count but in music I don't have much of a leg to stand on as I use Spotify almost exclusively to listen to music (except for the 1 or 2 records I buy). I argue this gets me into bands which gets me to the gigs and buying merch... Which isnt that different to the exposure thing. 

Interestingly they do talk further about this in the thread (which is worth a read) 

Screenshot_20210413-112210.thumb.png.e9911b851d7a3515c9f2e4bda9d624f6.png

EXPLOITED!!!

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Entitlement brigade isn't it? Why would Summer Camp expect to get paid for a 40 minute day time Williams Green gig? Its a huge opportunity for them. They have backstage passes which means they have access to all the journos and industry types, like a musical summit type thing. And they have a record company who should chip in. 

Its no different to a big tech expo apart from the fact the the tech companies at these expos are the ones who pay the money. Big well known brands. 

If you're good enough you'll be noticed. And if you grow a pair and do a little work you should be able to get someone to come see the show and get a review or some publicity. So many bands have made it that way.

The sense of entitlement is one of the reasons we have a shite live music scene on this side of the Atlantic. In most towns and cities in America for example there are killer bands playing in bars for tips. Pass the jar. Elsewhere bands seem to think they can knock out 3 chords in their parents shed, put on a Primark shirt and an Oxfam blouse and deserve a good living. 

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Click through for the thoughts of Mr Al Doyle. Also:

https://twitter.com/aldoyletweets/status/1381903541288247298 
(Ok but Glasto is not the enemy here guys. But a lot of actual industry assholes would love it if it were.)
https://twitter.com/aldoyletweets/status/1381904895255674880
(Couple of things here: a band that gets paid £50k per show will have a show cost of around £15k, so if they got £5k they’d be paying £10k to play. LCD and Hot Chip have both broken even/lost money playing Glasto...)
https://twitter.com/aldoyletweets/status/1381910802240786434
(Again I think the economics of Glasto are a huge distraction from the problematic economics of the music industry at large. Both are super weird but for different reasons. Just like Michael Eavis and Daniel Ek are weird for different reasons.)
Edited by Simpo
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Worth remembering too that Glastonbury isn't run for profit in the same way that other festivals are, most of the proceeds go to charity. So every penny that goes to artists means less for Oxfam/WaterAid/etc.

Maybe the festival should sell themselves to artists as more of a fundraiser/charity gig?

Edited by Hugh Jass
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2 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Maybe the festival should sell themselves to artists as more of a fundraiser/charity gig?

The artists know this, though, and that's why most of them are cool with doing it for smaller fees or nothing at all.

All the artists and agents in the live economy understand Glastonbury vs every other for-profit festival, so I'm really not sure what the original discussion's about in the first place. It doesn't really intersect with the wider conversation about musicians' earning potential because it's such an outlier in the first place.

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2 hours ago, Gnomicide said:

I don't know if it can be anything other than a 5 day pass if you are playing an early day. Short of impounding your vehicle, what are they going to do to get you off site?

Some stages (Avalon, Jazz World, Williams Green all did a few years ago, dunno if it's still the case), effectively ferry some of their acts on and off site - so the act parks up outside the festival, the stage provides transport for the act and their gear to and from the stage. The act doesn't get a wristband and so can't really go exploring.

I've never quite been sure if it's about managing the space in their limited backstage areas (whereas the Pyramid has room for a dozen tour buses to park up), or maximising wristbands - could be a bit of both.

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2 minutes ago, the wonderwhy said:

Nice to know there's a bunch of people in here I can hit up for free work whenever I need it! 

Well if you’re giving away free tickets to the worlds greatest festival for them and their mates, I think you’ll have quite a few people interested in your offer.

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I shared a beer or more with a band a few years ago - they didn't get paid, they got weekend tickets. The weather was lovely so they'd decided to stay, have a laugh and not sell on their wristbands. Most years, they sell them and that pays for the gig (inc. all the transport etc). Exposure was didn't mean anything for them. They claimed a lot of the small acts did exactly that and selling on the wristbands was expected by the festival.

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1 hour ago, hfuhruhurr said:

I shared a beer or more with a band a few years ago - they didn't get paid, they got weekend tickets. The weather was lovely so they'd decided to stay, have a laugh and not sell on their wristbands. Most years, they sell them and that pays for the gig (inc. all the transport etc). Exposure was didn't mean anything for them. They claimed a lot of the small acts did exactly that and selling on the wristbands was expected by the festival.

If a band don't get paid they need to get a better agent.

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8 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

I thought it well known that smaller acts got very little for playing?

You play to get noticed, not to get rich.

So you want to take the influencer route when it comes to this? They should be compensated. If the post had said “we got paid £50 and a 6 pack of Guinness” then this argument is about what they should be getting and not about trying to equate exposure into future income.

This isn’t The Super Bowl where the performer gets NOTHING because the trade off is 15 minutes on a global platform and the payoff afterwards in album sales/tour tickets is ridiculous.

 

Over here, the big promoters package artists together with tours and festivals so they maximize the dollars made. Its how you mostly figure out who is going to play what in a respective year or the following one. Just trace back who promoted the show and when, then correlate for the following festival season. Simple. 

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25 minutes ago, Suprefan said:

So you want to take the influencer route when it comes to this? They should be compensated. If the post had said “we got paid £50 and a 6 pack of Guinness” then this argument is about what they should be getting and not about trying to equate exposure into future income.

This isn’t The Super Bowl where the performer gets NOTHING because the trade off is 15 minutes on a global platform and the payoff afterwards in album sales/tour tickets is ridiculous.

 

Over here, the big promoters package artists together with tours and festivals so they maximize the dollars made. Its how you mostly figure out who is going to play what in a respective year or the following one. Just trace back who promoted the show and when, then correlate for the following festival season. Simple. 

They are compensated, they get a ticket. Did you actually read the rest of the thread before posting?

The artist themselves said that they were perfectly happy to play GF for free.

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11 hours ago, mattiloy said:

 

You could argue that the intangible, cultural value of indie bands is greater than the amount that people want to actually pay for it and that the state should pay through arts councils and the like as it does with ballet and opera and all that.

You could argue that, but do you really want state funded bands? What next, state approved songs? 😁

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