news & politics:discussion

[zahidf]

[ian the worm]

I would….

[clarkete]

5 hours ago, Neil said:

they say the English govern them badly but then vote for a party which governs them badly. i missed when Scotland became a colony to be governed by the English, Blairs labour was stuffed with Scots and they hated that. lol

I think you mean "i miss when Scotland became a colony to be governed by the English" 😉

You say they govern badly, but that's merely your view and not reflective of their level of support. As the article stated there are many things they do which are popular. 

Also given that Blair's manifesto incuded referendums for devolution and compared to now they had loads of labour MPs in Scotland, what's your basis for saying they hated that? 

[ian the worm]

Neil Parish has done an amazing U-Turn by resigning today. Yes he stumbled for a day and yesterdays interview was a car crash. But today he was honest and therefore seems really really open about it. Resigning was the best option by far  

Secondly he shows up everyone else who is not resigning and “waiting for the inquiry” regarding things they have done wrong. And I like that. Because I assume Boris will now say that Neil Parish has done the right thing. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by ian the worm

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, ian the worm said:

Neil Parish has done an amazing U-Turn by resigning today. Yes he stumbled for a day and yesterdays interview was a car crash. But today he was honest and therefore seems really really open about it. Resigning was the best option by far  

Secondly he shows up everyone else who is not resigning and “waiting for the inquiry” regarding things they have done wrong. And I like that. Because I assume Boris will now say that Neil Parish has done the right thing. 

I actually feel a bit sorry for him, and his family...public shaming like this.

[pink_triangle]

It's an amazing lack of self awareness to keep digging and giving further ammunition rather than just putting his hands up and admitting it.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Don’t know where to start with that really. So people who don’t engage with politics are centrists and then a classic daily mail trope about those who supported Labour in 2019 as being a load of whiney middle class kids… load of bollocks old son.

From experience I know that the Corbyn supporting coalition was largely working class all ages, and young people all socio economic backgrounds, thats who I met. Because these are the people who have been most fucked over by govts of recent decades. New Labour didnt work for them.

Older middle class people did not because basically they don’t want to be taxed more, they don’t want to have to sell their buy to lets, they don’t want to give up their gas guzzling landies, even if it means their kids are fucked.. 

Then finally, the manifesto was the most radical for a mainstream party since the post war general elections. To say that the supporters were not motivated by a desire for change, and that New Labour were, whose legacy is what exactly? A big load of nothing. What a lot of shite.

 

So who do you define as centrist? Most on the left give that label to people who have never defined themselves in that way.

The people of influence on the Corbyn movement were middle class people happy to be a protest movement. Jez would have hated every minute as PM having to actually get things done. There was a big focus on issues like middle East politics. I have spent the last 15 years working in the NHS visiting people at home and that's an issue I have never heard a patient (or family member) discuss once.

I think labour will go into the next election with a focus on health, education, child poverty etc. I have doubts about Starmer (and would prefer Rayner) but think he is way better than Long Bailey who was the alternative.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

So who do you define as centrist? Most on the left give that label to people who have never defined themselves in that way.

The people of influence on the Corbyn movement were middle class people happy to be a protest movement. Jez would have hated every minute as PM having to actually get things done. There was a big focus on issues like middle East politics. I have spent the last 15 years working in the NHS visiting people at home and that's an issue I have never heard a patient (or family member) discuss once.

I think labour will go into the next election with a focus on health, education, child poverty etc. I have doubts about Starmer (and would prefer Rayner) but think he is way better than Long Bailey who was the alternative.

isn't centrist sort of what Blair and Clinton called 3rd way? So to the right on economics, no to state ownership etc, and left on social policies...more money for health, education etc. So, it's not exactly the antichrist like some on left like to think, but maybe it doesn't actually work that well in practice, relying on profit motive etc.

The struggle is always finding the best system, and nothing is perfect. I think that essential public services like energy, water etc should be state owned, and public transport should either be state owned or subsidised/controlled so buses/trains can reach everyone and provide a decent, affordable service. But at same time I'm not going to lose sleep if those services remain in the private sector, the main thing for me is the redistribution of wealth. Maybe that makes me a centrist.

[zahidf]

[Copperface]

1 hour ago, Punksnotdead said:

If you've thought of this joke yourself, I congratulate you sir 👏

 

Sadly not. But the good news is that Parish has vowed to abstain from his tractor fetish.

 

 

 

He is now an extractor fan......

[Copperface]

 

 

[ian the worm]

Just remembered that rather incriminating video evidence was once circulating at my place of work (quite a posh place)…... and HR issued the legendary memo saying “employees should not film people masturbating in the toilets”. Totally missing the point as they seemed to be more concerned with GDPR. 

[Ozanne]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/30/the-sound-you-can-hear-is-the-dying-groans-of-a-clapped-out-government?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[squirrelarmy]

5 hours ago, mattiloy said:

To say that the supporters were not motivated by a desire for change, and that New Labour were, whose legacy is what exactly? A big load of nothing. What a lot of shite.

Not much point debating with you as you’re a Corbyn fanboy but one thing New Labour managed to do that Corbyns Labour completely failed to do and that was get elected. 
 

Blair may not have been the greatest PM with some questionable decisions but at least he was in charge of a party that was an electable alternative to the Tories. 
 

As for centrists. Once you exclude all the hard left and the hard right voters. What are you left with??? Centrists. It’s a large voter base. 

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

isn't centrist sort of what Blair and Clinton called 3rd way? So to the right on economics, no to state ownership etc, and left on social policies...more money for health, education etc. So, it's not exactly the antichrist like some on left like to think, but maybe it doesn't actually work that well in practice, relying on profit motive etc.

 

The thing is very few labour MPs refer to themselves as centrists. In fact very few people call themselves centrist full stop. When the likes of Owen Jones talk about "so called centrists" I struggle to know who they are talking about.

[pink_triangle]

53 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Blair may not have been the greatest PM with some questionable decisions but at least he was in charge of a party that was an electable alternative to the Tories. 

 

I'm in my early 40s and my time Thatcher to Johnson I would say Blair is comfortably ahead as best PM. People may say there isn't much competition, but I would also argue being PM is a pretty tough job to succeed. They all pretty much end in failure.

[Ozanne]

49 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I'm in my early 40s and my time Thatcher to Johnson I would say Blair is comfortably ahead as best PM. People may say there isn't much competition, but I would also argue being PM is a pretty tough job to succeed. They all pretty much end in failure.

Without a doubt Blair is the best PM of my lifetime. It isn’t really close. 

[Ryan1984]

Useless Dowden at it again:

 

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Useless Dowden at it again:

 

They are absolutely petrified of an electoral pact. 

[steviewevie]

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

The thing is very few labour MPs refer to themselves as centrists. In fact very few people call themselves centrist full stop. When the likes of Owen Jones talk about "so called centrists" I struggle to know who they are talking about.

Yeah Jones was kind of just using the term to stoke divisions within labour...between the older blair version and the, then new, corbyn version. What both sides need to realise is they both need to make compromises and work together if they're ever going to get in power to be able to actually make a difference, too much purist ideology...and frankly too much obsessive bitterness and hate. 

 

 

[steviewevie]

Robert Ford in Observer about upcoming local elections...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/01/labour-can-take-some-tory-citadels-this-week-but-dont-expect-a-clear-cut-uk-result

[steviewevie]

🙂

[Ozanne]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

🙂

 

 

[Ryan1984]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

They are absolutely petrified of an electoral pact. 

The hypocrisy is incredible. How is it different to their pact with Big Nige the other year?

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Yeah Jones was kind of just using the term to stoke divisions within labour...between the older blair version and the, then new, corbyn version. What both sides need to realise is they both need to make compromises and work together if they're ever going to get in power to be able to actually make a difference, too much purist ideology...and frankly too much obsessive bitterness and hate. 

 

 

Agreed that left to centre left coalition needs to hold and take enough of those floating voters if labour are to succeed. I voted labour under Corbyn and will vote labour under Starmer. Labour is about more than the leader and I think there is enough talent within labour to make positive changes.