news & politics:discussion

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, jimmillen said:

That very question puts an importance on ideology that not everyone - voters or MPs - shares.

Some MPs genuinely get into politics because they want to do their best as a representative for their constituency, and they'll join whichever party allows them to do so - even if they have to vote for a bunch of things they don't entirely agree with.

Looked at through a more cynical lens: some MPs genuinely get into politics because of ambition and a burning desire for power, and they'll join whichever party facilitates this - even if they have to vote for a bunch of things they don't entirely agree with.

And for voters, yes beliefs matter, but so does character and action on local issues. If an MP is seen to be "doing a good job" with things that voters in the constituency care about, then they can still win elections even when their ideology is shockingly out of step with the electorate.

Basically, people are complicated and ideology isn't everything.

I agree. For voters this is reasonable. They are often not very ideological.
 

This guy however has a degree in politics and was a tory councillor for years.

The major parties in our shit system do sadly have to be ’broad churches’ but in respect of economics its fairly binary - either you believe in government intervention, in the welfare state, in at least mixed public/private provision of public services - or you don’t.

So either he has had a massive change of heart, or he expects Labour to be fairly market oriented. I suspect it is the latter.

Which means that he sees that Labour is no longer a party of the left, or even the centre left.

And thats a party I can’t vote for. Because centrism didn’t deliver even when the world looked a whole lot rosier, it certainly doesn’t have the solutions now.

[Ozanne]

 

[steviewevie]

38 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

 

After decades of centrist politics, with the UK lurching from crisis to crisis for much of that time and with the nearly static growth in real disposable income since 1997 and household debt increasing enormously, then you both conclude that more centrism is needed..

If people are worse off and the political system has deteriorated to such an extent, call me crazy but I’d start to wonder if maybe something needed to change.

 

Lib Dems?

[Ozanne]

Johnson's response in PMQs just shows how any remorse he shows is just an act, he doesn't care as soon as he thinks the attention is off then he will revert back to his bullish bravado. He will always be a lying snake.

[chazwwe]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Johnson's response in PMQs just shows how any remorse he shows is just an act, he doesn't care as soon as he thinks the attention is off then he will revert back to his bullish bravado. He will always be a lying snake.

I didn't notice anything different of how he's acted pretty much through the whole pandemic. At the start it was 'wait and see, don't ask questions, but we got brexit done' and then it was 'yes people died, but vaccines are good' and now its 'don't ask questions about the party, vaccines still good'. 

He doesn't answer questions, and if he does its not properly, he dodges answers so he can bring up the 'wonderful' things he's done and says they should be asking about that. 

[mattiloy]

I just don’t see how if you’re bothered about electricity prices, house prices, corporate pay, inequality generally, the environment, the shit state of the NHS, migration, Brexit - you can also think that its a good idea to revert to the ideology that dominated politics for the decades preceding the advent of all of these things…

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, chazwwe said:

I didn't notice anything different of how he's acted pretty much through the whole pandemic. At the start it was 'wait and see, don't ask questions, but we got brexit done' and then it was 'yes people died, but vaccines are good' and now its 'don't ask questions about the party, vaccines still good'. 

He doesn't answer questions, and if he does its not properly, he dodges answers so he can bring up the 'wonderful' things he's done and says they should be asking about that. 

It's more the mocking nodding his head to Blakeford along with checking his watch. A truly remorseful man wouldn't do those things.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Ozanne

[mattiloy]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I just don’t see how if you’re bothered about electricity prices, house prices, corporate pay, inequality generally, the environment, the shit state of the NHS, migration, Brexit - you can also think that its a good idea to revert to the ideology that dominated politics for the decades preceding the advent of all of these things…

 

[chazwwe]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I just don’t see how if you’re bothered about electricity prices, house prices, corporate pay, inequality generally, the environment, the shit state of the NHS, migration, Brexit - you can also think that its a good idea to revert to the ideology that dominated politics for the decades preceding the advent of all of these things…

My mum who is not too far from retirment has voted Tory all her life. Shes a teacher and for weeks has been worried about masks not being in college. She texted me saying how shes proud of Boris for doing the right thing and leaving the masks up to choice.

These people have always voted conservative and always will, no matter what. 

[Ozanne]

 

 

[mattiloy]

3 minutes ago, chazwwe said:

My mum who is not too far from retirment has voted Tory all her life. Shes a teacher and for weeks has been worried about masks not being in college. She texted me saying how shes proud of Boris for doing the right thing and leaving the masks up to choice.

These people have always voted conservative and always will, no matter what. 

I mean Labour centrists too. Blairism didn’t deliver either. 13 years. More problems than solutions.

Edited January 19, 2022 by mattiloy

[Ozanne]

 

 

[maelzoid]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

 

After decades of centrist politics, with the UK lurching from crisis to crisis for much of that time and with the nearly static growth in real disposable income since 1997 and household debt increasing enormously, then you both conclude that more centrism is needed..

If people are worse off and the political system has deteriorated to such an extent, call me crazy but I’d start to wonder if maybe something needed to change.

 

I hear ya. Although I don't know if things would be any better under a consistently left- or right-wing government.

I personally think that these trends all come from one policy choice - the refusal to raise the retirement age in line with an increase in life expectancy. And no party has been advocating that. As the cost of supporting an ever growing retired population has increased, rather than increase the retirement age, or raise taxes on those still working, or reduce pensions, just about every government has cut things elsewhere - The NHS, education, public services, housing etc.

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I just don’t see how if you’re bothered about electricity prices, house prices, corporate pay, inequality generally, the environment, the shit state of the NHS, migration, Brexit - you can also think that its a good idea to revert to the ideology that dominated politics for the decades preceding the advent of all of these things…

No labour manifesto yet, and Starmer is just trying to get labour elected 

[Ozanne]

Just another normal day for the Tories. 

[steviewevie]

Looks like Boris is safe...for now....

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Looks like Boris is safe...for now....

He survived the day which I didn’t think would happen 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

He survived the day which I didn’t think would happen 

I think the gains being made by labour are causing many MPs to hold off pulling the trigger (or send a letter).

[Ozanne]

Andrew Bridgen thinks they'll pass 54 letter by the end of the week. He's no better off than yesterday but not hugely worse off either, although today wasn't a good day for him.

[Ozanne]

 

This right here sums up why I loath Boris Johnson.

[squirrelarmy]

31 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This right here sums up why I loath Boris Johnson.

Could just leave that on repeat all day. 
 

Someone needs to play that video on one of those advert vans that do the rounds. 

[zahidf]

Yup! Why be on the ground for the Tory elections?

 

 

 

[Ozanne]

That’s because the Tories for some reason must always protect Boris Johnson at all costs and screw everyone else. 

[Neil]

14 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That’s because the Tories for some reason must always protect Boris Johnson at all costs and screw everyone else. 

they think spaffer is popular at elections, an 80 seat majority says he is.

[JoeyT]

Stand by yer beds...