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zahidf

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Kurosagi
Kurosagi

Don't post on here often, but read it every day. Can't sit by and watch @Ozanne getting picked on for doing little other than make a polite 'point of order' request without my saying something. F

maelzoid
maelzoid

Obviously horrible news. But I think pointing the finger at Rayner is not only unfair to her, but also serves to help silence critics of the Tories. Don't forget that over the years, BJ's words h

Zoo Music Girl
Zoo Music Girl

Man I'm furious. He's not remotely apologetic. Look at his face while Starmer is talking. I've tried to avoid taking this too personally but my mum died in hospital last summer and I wasn't allow

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DeanoL Mentor

DeanoL

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The police are to blame for not working with the organisers on the protest.

The issue with this is what decides when the police should and shouldn't work with people?

If I say one of my relatives has passed and was really, really popular, so we want to have an outdoor funeral with 50 people, and so I ask the police if that's okay, they would rightly say no. If I went and did it anyway, that wouldn't be their fault.

I think part of the issue is: what was this event? A vigil is not a protest. I'd have some more sympathy for it if it was always a protest - but then I'd note that generally where protests have been allowed to happen they're not allowed to extend after dark. 

If the justification then for having later is that it's a vigil, then well... I'm sure plenty of us on here have not been able to attend the funerals of people we would otherwise have attended because of the rules, it's just the reality of the situation. 

Having said that: obviously the police reaction was ridiculous and over the top, and should never have happened. 

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gizmoman Rising Star

gizmoman

Posted
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3 hours ago, DeanoL said:

The issue with this is what decides when the police should and shouldn't work with people?

If I say one of my relatives has passed and was really, really popular, so we want to have an outdoor funeral with 50 people, and so I ask the police if that's okay, they would rightly say no. If I went and did it anyway, that wouldn't be their fault.

I think part of the issue is: what was this event? A vigil is not a protest. I'd have some more sympathy for it if it was always a protest - but then I'd note that generally where protests have been allowed to happen they're not allowed to extend after dark. 

If the justification then for having later is that it's a vigil, then well... I'm sure plenty of us on here have not been able to attend the funerals of people we would otherwise have attended because of the rules, it's just the reality of the situation. 

Having said that: obviously the police reaction was ridiculous and over the top, and should never have happened. 

So if you went ahead would they be in the right to arrest those attending? A strict enforcement of the law would require that, a sensible approach would be to try to ensure it went ahead as safely as possible, as it happens this exact scenario happened a few weeks ago, https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19043290.police-attendance-large-funeral-passes-peacefully/

The bottom line is the police are there to serve and protect the public not enforce laws that are unnecessary and disproportionate.

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maelzoid Mentor

maelzoid

Posted
Posted

re: The Clapham Vigil

I think one of the issues here is a question of what is the main duty of the police. I think many would assume it is to uphold laws, in which case, they were justified in their actions. I wholly reject this idea, however. I think our police are there primarily to protect our society, and their enforcement of laws is a part of that. The actions they took on Saturday night did not benefit a single person, did not protect anyone and did a great deal of damage to the relationship between the police and local society. It stands as an absolute failure of their responsibilities, and whomever ordered and oversaw the escalation to physical conflict should be held to full account.

I am also inclined to believe the Police went to this event with an embattled mindset. Because the suspected murderer was one of their own they were more defensive than they may otherwise have been and perhaps more ready to display a show of force.

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eFestivals Mentor

eFestivals

Posted
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48 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Just spotted this while linking the funeral story,

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19161048.bradford-police-officer-ben-lister-charged-rape-sexual-assault/

Maybe we need a 6 p.m. curfew just for the police.

There's quite a high incidences of murdder fromserving police officers perhaps the highest group in society.

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Homer Proficient

Homer

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, DeanoL said:

I think part of the issue is: what was this event? A vigil is not a protest. I'd have some more sympathy for it if it was alwaa protest - but then I'd note that generally where protests have been allowed to happen they're not allowed to extend after dark. 

If the justification then for having later is that it's a vigil, then well... I'm sure plenty of us on here have not been able to attend the funerals of people we would otherwise have attended because of the rules, it's just the reality of the situation. 

Having said that: obviously the police reaction was ridiculous and over the top, and should never have happened. 

My wife said to me, I was up for going to the vigil - but I didn't fancy having to get home on my own in the dark afterwards. Does seem a bit of an oversight!

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Field Commander Jefferson Collaborator

Field Commander Jefferson

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Plenty of counties insist on various jabs before you can go there yellow fever for Uganda for example.

Yellow fever has a 40-50% mortality rate, covid is 0.03%.

Anyway these are INTERNAL vaccine passports being discussed. Tracking you entering gigs pubs shops festivals.

Blair's ID cards in through the backdoor, dangerous 

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Crazyfool01 Grand Master

Crazyfool01

Posted
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just watching tonights protest ... seems like a growing thing now .... lots of different movements and chants involved ... hard to pin down the reason for this march which was intended to be ...Coalition Protest Against Anti-Protest Bill | Parliament Square - London

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squirrelarmy Veteran

squirrelarmy

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

just watching tonights protest ... seems like a growing thing now .... lots of different movements and chants involved ... hard to pin down the reason for this march which was intended to be ...Coalition Protest Against Anti-Protest Bill | Parliament Square - London

So basically it’s because they’re all bored and the suns out so lets go cause some grief. 

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

just watching tonights protest ... seems like a growing thing now .... lots of different movements and chants involved ... hard to pin down the reason for this march which was intended to be ...Coalition Protest Against Anti-Protest Bill | Parliament Square - London

well, this anti protest bill is important, people should protest. 

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Crazyfool01 Grand Master

Crazyfool01

Posted
Posted
Just now, squirrelarmy said:

So basically it’s because they’re all bored and the suns out so lets go cause some grief. 

no issues at present ... quite a fundamental thing to be protesting about with the original reason for the march ... but it just seems to have no purpose really 

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