news & politics:discussion

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Labour do well when they provide something better. Not when the tories do shit

That’s not totally accurate even kier starmer said that wasn’t the case this morning in an interview … it’s a bit of both 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

People still aren’t 100% truthful in focus groups I can tell you that. We’ve always had a problem with the silent Tory voters, or misleading Tory voters.

Quite a lot of them exist down south. Lower - Middle Class types that don’t really like the tories and will slag them off all day but when it comes to election time they grit their teeth and vote for them.

Tory apathy doesn’t hurt their voting record like labour apathy does. Unfortunately that’s just how things are in the UK.

Labour do well when they provide something better. Not when the tories do shit.

The people won't get hassled if they said they would still vote Tory, it's anonymous out of the focus group so whilst not totally representative it gives some background to recent polling. It's also backed up apparently by on the door comments from constituents from Tory MPs as well.

I'll still go by the findings and comments from the people that ran the focus group over your random thoughts on focus groups as a whole.

 

[mcshed]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Tory apathy doesn’t hurt their voting record like labour apathy does. Unfortunately that’s just how things are in the UK.

More Tory voters vote because they are older or because of their backgrounds or whatever, so even when they aren't hugely keen on the current iteration of the Conservative Party they still trudge down to the polling station and when push comes to shove they often still pick the Tories as the best of a bad bunch. On the other hand there are plenty of Labour voters who aren't that arsed about voting so if they don't like what the party is doing at the moment then they'll happily just stay home and not bother.

[Ozanne]

Labour policies for dealing with Covid.

 

 

[steviewevie]

29 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Quite a lot of them exist down south. Lower - Middle Class types that don’t really like the tories and will slag them off all day but when it comes to election time they grit their teeth and vote for them.

and many of those seats down south are safe tory seats. What will be worrying tory party will be those red wall voters who have fallen out of love with their brexit hero.

[steviewevie]

more BBC bias.

 

[steviewevie]

49 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

I guess that clears it all up then. 😂

I wonder if this sort of thing is what Sue Gray investigates...or is it outside her remit?

To be honest I'm kind of confused what she is supposed to be doing? Whether parties happened and were they against the rules? Does she apportion blame to anyone?

[Crazyfool01]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I wonder if this sort of thing is what Sue Gray investigates...or is it outside her remit?

To be honest I'm kind of confused what she is supposed to be doing? Whether parties happened and were they against the rules? Does she apportion blame to anyone?

She states fact doesn’t she … so what happened , who was there , and when ? 

[steviewevie]

this...

 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

She states fact doesn’t she … so what happened , who was there , and when ? 

ok...yes...I guess...but by all accounts Johnson was only at the 20 May 2020 one for about 30 minutes or something...and it was outside (and he didn't realise it was a party apparently).

[Ozanne]

18 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I wonder if this sort of thing is what Sue Gray investigates...or is it outside her remit?

To be honest I'm kind of confused what she is supposed to be doing? Whether parties happened and were they against the rules? Does she apportion blame to anyone?

The remit is to manufacture a narrative that gets Johnson off the hook.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Ozanne

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The remit to manufacture a narrative that gets Johnson off the hook.

she's a civil servant who worked for previous govt including a labour one .... Boris will be the one that gets Boris off the hook if he does ... 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

she's a civil servant who worked for previous govt including a labour one .... Boris will be the one that gets Boris off the hook if he does ... 

yeah, she'll present the evidence and then he'll decide who to sack.

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

she's a civil servant who worked for previous govt including a labour one .... Boris will be the one that gets Boris off the hook if he does ... 

I'm aware of who she is, I am also aware she has history where she has given advice to staff of how to delete emails correctly to avoid leaving a document trail, she's also intervened to tell departments to fight disclosures under the Freedom of Information Act so I'm not exactly confident this report will really do anything and in-turn let Johnson off.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Ozanne

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

I'm aware of who she is, I am also aware she has history where she has given advice to staff of how to delete emails correctly to avoid leaving a document trail, she's also intervened to tell departments to fight disclosures under the Freedom of Information Act so I'm not exactly confident this report will really do anything and in-turn let Johnson off.

the report will likely do nothing anyway ... whoever writes it ... because of the way its set up ... Johnson will likely do his best to wriggle out of it as we know ... but it depends very much on other factors ... like the MET and if they take it up after ... or the shit the constituency mps are getting from the electorate ... they will have the choice to back him or not based on that ... its not going to be pretty whichever way they choose 

[Ozanne]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

the report will likely do nothing anyway ... whoever writes it ... because of the way its set up ... Johnson will likely do his best to wriggle out of it as we know ... but it depends very much on other factors ... like the MET and if they take it up after ... or the shit the constituency mps are getting from the electorate ... they will have the choice to back him or not based on that ... its not going to be pretty whichever way they choose 

Exactly, that's what I said from the start. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence this report will conclude that Johnson acted in a way that was ill-advised and there are some cultural problems to solve but no one has broken any rules or needs to step down. Essentially brushing it all under the carpet. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

but no one has broken any rules or needs to step down. Essentially brushing it all under the carpet. 

not sure that bit fits the remit though ? she's presenting fact not acting as a judge ... unless ive got this wrong 

[steviewevie]

Tories have little else to privatise except the NHS and BBC, and the NHS is untouchable, so BBC will have to do.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

not sure that bit fits the remit though ? she's presenting fact not acting as a judge ... unless ive got this wrong 

this is it...it's confusing what she's supposed to be doing...I bet she's even confused what she's supposed to be doing...Johnson is utimately her boss and really it should be someone totally independent investigating this shit.

[Ozanne]

4 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

not sure that bit fits the remit though ? she's presenting fact not acting as a judge ... unless ive got this wrong 

That's my whole point, the report is pointless and designed to let people off the hook. The Tories are hiding behind this report when all it will say is 'culture', they know it will be like this which is why they are going on about it so much.

The only question left will be when is Sue Gay getting her Damehood.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Ozanne

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Ozanne said:

That's my whole point, the report is pointless and designed to let people off the hook. The Tories are hiding behind this report when all it will say is 'culture'.

The only question left will be when is Sue Gay getting her Damehood.

she wont if Boris goes and theres still a pretty high chance of that 

[Ozanne]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

she wont if Boris goes and theres still a pretty high chance of that 

He won't go as a result of this report, it's not designed to do that.

[steviewevie]

 

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

He won't go as a result of this report, it's not designed to do that.

he might anyway .... thats my point ... the report is irrelevant 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

He won't go as a result of this report, it's not designed to do that.

but MPs might move against him if public mood doesn't change or worsens following the report. I expect the Mail/Express to go full on Johnson is innocent, not sure about Sun/Times/Telegraph...