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Glasto politics: Non covid news


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3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:


representative of what?

voters. actual people. People these MPs have to campaign and persuade to vote for them  during election campaigns. Not just anyone who joins for £20 or whatever. I mean, this is political right. Starmer knows that membership increased massively to get corbyn in, and a lot of them are still there and want him out. There was a time when people like Benn opposed omov and Kinnock/Smith supported it, for similar reasons probably.

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I see Scotland is going to use the army and firefighters to drive ambulances and use taxis, but it won't work if the problems in Scotland are the same as in England,the delay in England is for ambulances to unload their patients at hospital, I had a four hour wait in Bristol a few weeks back, apparently, cos unloading into corridors is a covid risk.

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57 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This whole situation with the UC cut, end of furlough, end of self employment support and gas price increase could really be the perfect storm for some people. I wonder if this will cause people to turn against the government?

If tories start polling badly and it's looking like they could lose next election then they'll find a way to kick Johnson out. Can't see it myself, Johnson all powerful and still popular despite everything, but we'll see.

 

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43 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

voters. actual people. People these MPs have to campaign and persuade to vote for them  during election campaigns. Not just anyone who joins for £20 or whatever. I mean, this is political right. Starmer knows that membership increased massively to get corbyn in, and a lot of them are still there and want him out. There was a time when people like Benn opposed omov and Kinnock/Smith supported it, for similar reasons probably.


1/3rd of votes on policies and leaders going to trade unions (usually on about 10% of turnout), 1/3rd of the vote to MPs and just 1/3rd of the vote to members.

Thats going to be representative of voters is it?

Peak authoritarian centrism showing its arse. If the people don’t vote the way you want them to, the problem is the people and they must be eliminated (from the process in this case, but i reckon they wouldn’t mind going further if they could get away with it)

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2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:


1/3rd of votes on policies and leaders going to trade unions (usually on about 10% of turnout), 1/3rd of the vote to MPs and just 1/3rd of the vote to members.

Thats going to be representative of voters is it?

Peak authoritarian centrism showing its arse. If the people don’t vote the way you want them to, the problem is the people and they must be eliminated (from the process in this case, but i reckon they wouldn’t mind going further if they could get away with it)

That's how it used to be. No one complained before. Benn fought for it. Milliband only brought it in because thought unions had too much power.

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4 minutes ago, mattiloy said:


1/3rd of votes on policies and leaders going to trade unions (usually on about 10% of turnout), 1/3rd of the vote to MPs and just 1/3rd of the vote to members.

Thats going to be representative of voters is it?

Peak authoritarian centrism showing its arse. If the people don’t vote the way you want them to, the problem is the people and they must be eliminated (from the process in this case, but i reckon they wouldn’t mind going further if they could get away with it)

and they're not "people", they're a bunch of middle class lefties who wanted a peoples vote and thought Corbyn was the answer and not Burnham...I should know as I'm one of them.

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1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

That's how it used to be. No one complained before. Benn fought for it. Milliband only brought it in because thought unions had too much power.

Its much harder to go back to something shit once you’ve had a taste of something better. And why should we? Nobody complained about the lack of electric lighting before it existed..

 

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

and they're not "people", they're a bunch of middle class lefties who wanted a peoples vote and thought Corbyn was the answer and not Burnham...I should know as I'm one of them.

 

Still, got to be more representative than a bunch of upper class paternalistic liberals (MPs)?
 

That vote was on ’not taking any options including a second referendum off the table in the event of an imminent no deal’ and I don’t think many of starmer’s PLP would have voted against it had it been an electoral college system.

I do wonder how Burnham would have fared as Labour leader in the brexit days. Hard to know. Brexit has chewed up and spat out a good few would be emperors from both sides. Maybe for Burnham its a blessing that he managed to avoid it altogether to ride in on a white steed and save the country in a couple of years.

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So Keir (centrist coward) lied his way into leadership (by basically abandoning his pledges) and now wants to ensure he can keep it by rigging the rules.

This man has proven again he has no intentions of fighting the tories, he just wants to finish the left within the party. Absolute joke of a man.

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2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Benn fought for it.


Just read up on this. Seen it doing the rounds as a gotcha to those on the left.

Turns out that prior to it the PLP had all the votes..

Good response here by a recently sacked senior advisor Starmer:

https://medium.com/@simonfletcher_17993/the-electoral-college-should-be-left-in-the-past-4d793e3641f

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20 minutes ago, mattiloy said:


Just read up on this. Seen it doing the rounds as a gotcha to those on the left.

Turns out that prior to it the PLP had all the votes..

Good response here by a recently sacked senior advisor Starmer:

https://medium.com/@simonfletcher_17993/the-electoral-college-should-be-left-in-the-past-4d793e3641f

Benn opposed omov as an alternative to just PLP and wanted trade union block votes. I guess he was worried about all the trots.

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14 hours ago, steviewevie said:

and they're not "people", they're a bunch of middle class lefties who wanted a peoples vote and thought Corbyn was the answer and not Burnham...I should know as I'm one of them.

people who think it should be all about satisfying their own wants unable to see the bigger picture, unable to see the bigger picture.

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10 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Whilst Starmer starts a civil war Johnson is getting what could be a big win for COP26 with US and China making big pledges.

whilst Starmer clears up the shit that the selfish caused, while those selfish try to create more shit with comments like this!!!!

cos its not about you, its about the bigger picture, people don't want a racist for PM, spAFFER OR ANYONE ELSE!!!

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17 minutes ago, Neil said:

people who think it should be all about satisfying their own wants unable to see the bigger picture, unable to see the bigger picture.

 

15 minutes ago, Neil said:

whilst Starmer clears up the shit that the selfish caused, while those selfish try to create more shit with comments like this!!!!

cos its not about you, its about the bigger picture, people don't want a racist for PM, spAFFER OR ANYONE ELSE!!!

There seems to be some misunderstanding that @steviewevie is a rabid Corbyn supporter who hated Starmer? Never seen him post anything like that. As he himself said that's why he's always arguing with @mattiloy!

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4 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

 

There seems to be some misunderstanding that @steviewevie is a rabid Corbyn supporter who hated Starmer? Never seen him post anything like that. As he himself said that's why he's always arguing with @mattiloy!

hes blaming starmer because starmer is having to deal with the issues created by the previous leader

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20 minutes ago, Neil said:

hes blaming starmer because starmer is having to deal with the issues created by the previous leader

Errr...ok...

For starters corbyn didn't bring in one member one vote, Milliband did. I am not that against the electoral college thing as I have argued with mattiloy about, although I think starmer risks turning conference into an internal labour fight instead of setting out his vision, and if that happens everyone will just switch off from it. Starmer is just making more and more enemies within labour. If he was polling well like Blair then you could argue that this could be the way to go, but he isn't, and I think it's all going to end badly.

 

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1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Anyway looks like bigger unions are asking for this electoral college decision to be postponed to give more time to go over and debate properly, which seems like a good idea. Take some heat out of it.

Starmer is having to change the voting cos it got hijacked in a similar way to how the unions used to swing the vote. The people against the starmer change feel they are having their privileged powers removed from them, its the same argument as happened when it got changed by miliband people who think the Labour Party should be about them annoyed at losing their privileges. 

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2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Errr...ok...

For starters corbyn didn't bring in one member one vote, Milliband did. I am not that against the electoral college thing as I have argued with mattiloy about, although I think starmer risks turning conference into an internal labour fight instead of setting out his vision, and if that happens everyone will just switch off from it. Starmer is just making more and more enemies within labour. If he was polling well like Blair then you could argue that this could be the way to go, but he isn't, and I think it's all going to end badly.

 


Yes. You feel at this stage he is going for broke. Clearly he’s decided that the Labour party will only win if it takes a great leap to the centre, and knows that he is limited in how quickly and how far to the centre he can lurch unless he bends the party to his will by driving out the left and rigging internal votes/elections.

Its a big gamble, if he’s right and what the british public want is a centrist, globalist, pro eu, new-new-labour, he might win the next election. If it doesn’t come off it might well be the ruination of the labour party.

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11 minutes ago, mattiloy said:


Yes. You feel at this stage he is going for broke. Clearly he’s decided that the Labour party will only win if it takes a great leap to the centre, and knows that he is limited in how quickly and how far to the centre he can lurch unless he bends the party to his will by driving out the left and rigging internal votes/elections.

Its a big gamble, if he’s right and what the british public want is a centrist, globalist, pro eu, new-new-labour, he might win the next election. If it doesn’t come off it might well be the ruination of the labour party.

I don't know...I reckon he just wants to distance himself from corbyn as much as poss to try to appeal to red wall voters...so centre left on economy, but likes the queen, tough on crime, prepared to nuke etc etc. I reckon he's more milliband than blair, but...yeah...lets see. I've defended him like fuck on here, but it's getting harder and harder.

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