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Glasto politics: Non covid news


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1 minute ago, Ryan1984 said:

All quiet on the wallpaper front for now... Eyes on Cummings in a couple of weeks?

I don’t think anyone gives a shit whether Boris and Carrie have John Lewis wallpaper or not.

 

The “let the bodies pile up” comment was far more damaging but even that is widely viewed as an off-the-cuff remark given how well the government has done in the recent phases of the pandemic. 

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8 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

I really thought their willingness to starve kids in the middle of a pandemic - until a footballer got involved - would have made some kind of impact. Nothing touches Johnson.

Exactly. This country is moving ever further rightwards. People are increasingly individualistic and don’t give a fuck about anyone worse off. It’s hugely depressing.

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3 minutes ago, Mimo said:

Exactly. This country is moving ever further rightwards. People are increasingly individualistic and don’t give a fuck about anyone worse off. It’s hugely depressing.

The country hasn't really moved at all.  Its always been this way.  Thatcherism etc   

Edited by Barry Fish
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6 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I don’t think anyone gives a shit whether Boris and Carrie have John Lewis wallpaper or not.

 

The “let the bodies pile up” comment was far more damaging but even that is widely viewed as an off-the-cuff remark given how well the government has done in the recent phases of the pandemic. 

The personal attacks on boris do nothing. I’d probably argue that the “let the bodies pile up” line wasn’t damaging either as an awful lot of this new vote leave electorate is anti-lockdown, anti-mask, etc.

 

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It takes a special kind of dunce to conclude that places like Hartlepool are lining up to give the Tories a stomping majority because Starmer isn’t left wing enough 😂😂😂

Mattiloy in the nicest way possible underestimates that most of the electorate is socially conservative. A lefter Labour now means more seats for the tories.

Edited by Matt42
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1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

I really think Labour are done mate they’ve been on a trajectory of just losing constituencies rather than gaining any for a while now.

How can you say they will be back in power when they’ve lost Scotland, Wales, the red wall, and now even some of their constituencies outside of London?

They’ve lost their vote base.

Because things can change very quickly in politics. Ultimately We have a two party system and unless you are suggesting tories will rule indefinitely then Labour will be back. 
 

See in the 1992 after the tories won their 4th majority in a row people probs said the same as you. By 1997 Labour won like 400 seats and nearly wiped the tories out. It just seems an impossible task atm but it isn’t. 
 

There has been a shift in their base for sure I do agree and they essentially have lost Scotland (who knows maybe not forever) they defo haven’t lost Wales tho and will be the largest party there again and the red wall probs won’t be gone forever.

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2 minutes ago, Mimo said:

Exactly. This country is moving ever further rightwards. People are increasingly individualistic and don’t give a fuck about anyone worse off. It’s hugely depressing.

Question for you and others....

 

What percentage of the electorate does not vote for the party who’s policies would leave them and their families best off?

 

I’d venture that it’s very very small. 

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2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Have any of you been to Hartlepool lately? It’s an absolute shithole like a lot of northern towns. Hardly surprising that they are lining up to kick out the party that’s been “representing” them for decades given the current state of affairs. 

I didn't become a champagne socialist to hang around in places like Hartlepool  😜

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5 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It takes a special kind of dunce to conclude that places like Hartlepool are lining up to give the Tories a stomping majority because Starmer isn’t left wing enough 😂😂😂


Corbyn didn’t win it twice then looooool 😂 

I’ll see you back here after the next general election when I’ll quote myself now stating that Starmer will now reshuffle to more of a right wing, dull, corporate shadow cabinet and I’ll repeat myself - they’ll be lucky to get 25% nationally.

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4 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Because things can change very quickly in politics. Ultimately We have a two party system and unless you are suggesting tories will rule indefinitely then Labour will be back. 
 

See in the 1992 after the tories won their 4th majority in a row people probs said the same as you. By 1997 Labour won like 400 seats and nearly wiped the tories out. It just seems an impossible task atm but it isn’t. 
 

There has been a shift in their base for sure I do agree and they essentially have lost Scotland (who knows maybe not forever) they defo haven’t lost Wales tho and will be the largest party there again and the red wall probs won’t be gone forever.

Yeah I’m saying that if current trends continue the Tories will remain in power for a very very long time.

So much I’d say theres a better chance of a new party winning again than Labour.

I think the problem you’re overseeing is the sheer damage that is being done to Labours credibility within some of the electorate. Many are not just writing the Labour off for the time being, but forever.

It feels like a huge demographic shift has happened and the Conservatives have plugged into it and maximised it. Labour are still a bit clueless to what is going on.

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12 minutes ago, Mimo said:

Exactly. This country is moving ever further rightwards. People are increasingly individualistic and don’t give a fuck about anyone worse off. It’s hugely depressing.

It is very depressing but there are signs that people are becoming fed up with the Tories across a national picture. The Tory sleaze stories are beginning to cut through and the more of those come out the more it’ll stop and make people think. 

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3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:


Corbyn didn’t win it twice then looooool 😂 

I’ll see you back here after the next general election when I’ll quote myself now stating that Starmer will now reshuffle to more of a right wing, dull, corporate shadow cabinet and I’ll repeat myself - they’ll be lucky to get 25% nationally.

Do you not think that Hartlepool turning blue overtime was the effect of a generational shift? Much of the electorate when they were younger would be cast out by their families for voting blue. Now their parents are dead and they are the breadwinners of their family they want to make their own decisions. Some will stick with the “well me and my family always voted Labour” approach. Some will move away from it.

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Just now, Ozanne said:

It is very depressing but there are signs that people are becoming fed up with the Tories across a national picture. 

Literally where? London? Students? People on Twitter?

The electorate is showing the opposite. They want MORE.

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Ok..many things going on.

These areas have all been heading tory the last decade or so...and this is just another one.

Last time the right vote was split, now it is just the left vote that is split.

Starmer is a problem...he's dull, people switch off when he starts talking. Corbyn was a problem too, but for different reasons.

The left think he should stick with 2019 manifesto...at moment he doesn't have a manifesto, labour only scraped a win there with the 2019 manifesto, and that was with brexit party and Tice dividing right vote. But, anyway, what is Starmer...is he left, is he centrist, what is he? Maybe labour need a radical manifesto but a "normal" likeable person in charge...like Biden in US. Starmer just hasn't got that...not sure I know any MP who has that...someone like Jess Phillips, but the left hate her so that probably wouldn't work.

People there are voting tory because they like Johnson, they like brexit being done, they like how lockdown is ending...and also they could get more govt cash, more jobs, levelling up. That is the offer, and they want it. Have to see how things are by next election.

Johnson is a winner. Can't deny it. He won in labour london twice. He won leadership election because he's seen as a winner. He won brexit. He won a landslide in 2019. The w*nker.

No easy answers for labour. They need to appeal to voters in places like Hartlepool but also in metropolitan areas, and wealthier parts of the south like Blair did, and also in Scotland and Wales. 

Without PR labour need to be less divided, With division they die.

 

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5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Ok..many things going on.

These areas have all been heading tory the last decade or so...and this is just another one.

Last time the right vote was split, now it is just the left vote that is split.

Starmer is a problem...he's dull, people switch off when he starts talking. Corbyn was a problem too, but for different reasons.

The left think he should stick with 2019 manifesto...at moment he doesn't have a manifesto, labour only scraped a win there with the 2019 manifesto, and that was with brexit party and Tice dividing right vote. But, anyway, what is Starmer...is he left, is he centrist, what is he? Maybe labour need a radical manifesto but a "normal" likeable person in charge...like Biden in US. Starmer just hasn't got that...not sure I know any MP who has that...someone like Jess Phillips, but the left hate her so that probably wouldn't work.

People there are voting tory because they like Johnson, they like brexit being done, they like how lockdown is ending...and also they could get more govt cash, more jobs, levelling up. That is the offer, and they want it. Have to see how things are by next election.

Johnson is a winner. Can't deny it. He won in labour london twice. He won leadership election because he's seen as a winner. He won brexit. He won a landslide in 2019. The w*nker.

No easy answers for labour. They need to appeal to voters in places like Hartlepool but also in metropolitan areas, and wealthier parts of the south like Blair did, and also in Scotland and Wales. 

Without PR labour need to be less divided, With division they die.

 

Labour has become a toxic brand. The division has already happened. The people have left.

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6 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Literally where? London? Students? People on Twitter?

The electorate is showing the opposite. They want MORE.

I guess he means recent westminster polls narrowing. Hartelpool doesn't represent the whole country...but labour need to somehow win places like Hartlepool back if they're going to stand a chance of winning next election.

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1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I guess he means recent westminster polls narrowing. Hartelpool doesn't represent the whole country...but labour need to somehow win places like Hartlepool back if they're going to stand a chance of winning next election.

Labour can't even begin to think about the rest of the country if it can't win Hartlepool 

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1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Labour has become a toxic brand. The division has already happened. The people have left.

Not in Manchester. 🙂

I don't know...it's easy to jump to massive conclusions, but as I said in previous post, Hartlepool is one town with specific issues...red wall, levelling up, brexit etc. 

I don't know...I think Labour are in big doo doo...but tories were in in big doo doo in the years after Blair came to power...remember Duncan Smith as leader...people were writing them off forever.

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Just now, Matt42 said:

Do you not think that Hartlepool turning blue overtime was the effect of a generational shift? Much of the electorate when they were younger would be cast out by their families for voting blue. Now their parents are dead and they are the breadwinners of their family they want to make their own decisions. Some will stick with the “well me and my family always voted Labour” approach. Some will move away from it.


No, coming from a poor, northern, red wall, former coal town myself - this argument that people in towns like mine are all right wing bigots is nonsense.

Immigration matters, the EU mattered- both are linked to the liberalisation of the economy which devastated those towns in the latter parts of the 20th century.

But left wing economic policies are by far the most popular - nationalising rail/utilities, more progressive wealth tax, getting private companies out of the NHS once and for all.

Localism is more important than nationalism. Most people aren’t flag shaggers but are proud of where they come from.

What they absolutely do resent, is bland liberal elite london barristers belching out utterly vapid marketing speak and expecting them to vote for them as they always have done.

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9 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Literally where? London? Students? People on Twitter?

The electorate is showing the opposite. They want MORE.

I wouldn’t go that far as to say the electorate want more sleaze but at this moment in time they seem ok with looking past the level of sleaze stories we have. Because this government are crooked there will be more and more that come and it will take away on the Tories standing in the eyes of the public. 

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3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Not in Manchester. 🙂

I don't know...it's easy to jump to massive conclusions, but as I said in previous post, Hartlepool is one town with specific issues...red wall, levelling up, brexit etc. 

I don't know...I think Labour are in big doo doo...but tories were in in big doo doo in the years after Blair came to power...remember Duncan Smith as leader...people were writing them off forever.

It’s probably worth saying that metropolitan areas Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, London, Bristol etc have all been shouting loud for  Labour and the Labour Party definitely feels most comfortable in these areas. But yeah - whilst these places are very vocal and loud in their support they can’t win them any elections.

This is what I think Corbyn struggled with. He can go to Bristol and attract a crowd of 10,000 shouting his name. He takes that home and thinks the people of the nation are behind him. 

Edited by Matt42
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