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Glasto politics: Non covid news


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32 minutes ago, Homer said:

A couple more constructive contributions here I see.


This thread kind of makes me understand why all those people decided to indeed 'fuck off and join the tories' instead of voting for JC at the last election!

So you're saying hurt feelings means someone should go vote for the tories instead, which will no doubt cause a lot more harm to society than any downvoting and namecalling on the internet?

 

 

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:


Not always a fan of Owen Jones but some good points in this

Yeah but i'd like to see CorBIN do any better 🤬🤬🤬

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On 2/28/2021 at 3:04 PM, Gilgamesh69 said:

👀

Screenshot_20210227_232906.jpg

When the left gets over its "4 legs good, 2 legs bad" mentality then it might start to appeal to a broader electorate.

41 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

So you're saying hurt feelings means someone should go vote for the tories instead, which will no doubt cause a lot more harm to society than any downvoting and namecalling on the internet?

 

It not about name calling on the internet. My sister and her husband were long standing members of the Labour party who left because of the intolerance of the Corbynites who joined the party when he became leader- you had to be a true believer or your opinions were disregarded.

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1 hour ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

So you're saying hurt feelings means someone should go vote for the tories instead, which will no doubt cause a lot more harm to society than any downvoting and namecalling on the internet?

 

 

Yeah but i'd like to see CorBIN do any better 🤬🤬🤬

Nah, that's not what I said (what I did say is there in black and white).

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4 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

When the left gets over its "4 legs good, 2 legs bad" mentality then it might start to appeal to a broader electorate.

Quite an interesting comment as by the end of the novel the new “Socialist” party ended up being indistinguishable to the original ruling party that was overthrown. 

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6 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Quite an interesting comment as by the end of the novel the new “Socialist” party ended up being indistinguishable to the original ruling party that was overthrown. 

Alright but that whole horseshoe theory thing is bollocks, and Orwell was writing in a period where "SOCIALISM BAD" was even more prominent than it is today. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, but the far left and the far right are N O T  T H E  S A M E

If anything, the fishhook theory is more accurate....

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7 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

but the far left and the far right are N O T  T H E  S A M E

They are the same in the sense that they are extreme positions held by a minority. 
 

The vast majority of the country is leaning slightly to the right. We want them to move back a little towards the left. A left wing extremist isn’t going to be popular enough to swing enough people over to make a difference. 
 

This is why you need someone with a more moderate position who can appeal to a greater number of potential voters. 

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2 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

They are the same in the sense that they are extreme positions held by a minority. 
 

The vast majority of the country is leaning slightly to the right. We want them to move back a little towards the left. A left wing extremist isn’t going to be popular enough to swing enough people over to make a difference. 
 

This is why you need someone with a more moderate position who can appeal to a greater number of potential voters. 


The sum of lib dems + labour + green + SNP was greater than the tory + BP vote. So you’re talking out your arse.

There is nothing extreme about Corbyn. He is a normal social democrat in most of the rest of the world except for maybe the US, Russia, Israel, Turkey and countries where crony capitalism dictates the political agenda.

The moment you accept, or part of your party vocally attests, that the right wing has it correct when you are the main left wing party in the country (like when Brown and Darling backed austerity in 2010 - in fact trying to outdo the tories) then it undermines the legitimacy of the left wing position and tells the public that the hostile press is right about left wing ideas.

And look now - even the tories wont pursue austerity this time - because its been proven to be nonsense - and they’ll say ’But this time its different, the coronavirus is a different recession to the financial crisis’ - without them or the media ever admitting they were wrong. Starmer could skewer the tories on this.

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Not too fussed about the corporation tax thing. For what its worth i agree that an increase could stimey a recovery in the short run although the messaging has been a bit of an unneeded balls up. But Jones focuses here one why focus group politics is junk and leaves the party in a political no mans land without a coherent position and that is such a lost opportunity to build the case against the tories being the prodigious bunglers and crooks that they have been.

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15 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

The sum of lib dems + labour + green + SNP was greater than the tory + BP vote. So you’re talking out your arse.

Are you saying there’s no right wing Labour voters? There will definitely be a large proportion of right wing SNP voters too. 
 

Right wing isn’t exclusive to Tory and Brexit party voters. 

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1 hour ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Alright but that whole horseshoe theory thing is bollocks, and Orwell was writing in a period where "SOCIALISM BAD" was even more prominent than it is today. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, but the far left and the far right are N O T  T H E  S A M E

If anything, the fishhook theory is more accurate....

Orwell was a socialist/anarchist who was opposed to totalitarianism. 

Horseshoe/Fishhook/Straight line - people adopt whichever hypothesis reinforces their views.

Edited by Losing my hair
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18 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

But I thought the Lib Dems were just Tories in disguise - you can't have them on both sides of the equation.

What made you think that?

They are usually considered to be in the centre no? 

I responded to a point about most of the country being right wing thus my grouping is simply ’not right wing’. Am I mistaken? Are you saying that the lib dems are right wing?

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19 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

What made you think that?

They are usually considered to be in the centre no? 

I responded to a point about most of the country being right wing thus my grouping is simply ’not right wing’. Am I mistaken? Are you saying that the lib dems are right wing?

There's endless examples of the left referring to the Lib Dems as "Yellow Tories" but apologies if that's not your personal opinion. You did not appear, however, to have much regard for the Lib Dems in this reply of yours to Neil earlier in this thread "I wouldnt be surprised if you had voted for the lib dems in 2019, am i right?".  

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50 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

There's endless examples of the left referring to the Lib Dems as "Yellow Tories" but apologies if that's not your personal opinion. You did not appear, however, to have much regard for the Lib Dems in this reply of yours to Neil earlier in this thread "I wouldnt be surprised if you had voted for the lib dems in 2019, am i right?".  

 

Yes well since your beef is with some of the left refusing to engage and instead simply bunching all lib dems together and deriding them yellow tories - it is a pity that you would seek to imply that I, as one of the left, must also be the same as everybody else on the left and embody what you see to be the worst traits of the left.

As it happens I don’t have much regard for the lib dems no. But its a syllogistic fallacy to say that that means I think they are right wing. One does not imply the other.

However, if I did think the lib dems were counted in the right wing grouping, I’d still argue that the votes in the last election implied the ’vast majority’ were not leaning to the right because the majority would actually be rather thin.

Edited by mattiloy
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18 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

New game up here, Sturgeon Bingo . Play it at all her press briefings. Just mark off when she mentions her usual stock answers, soundbites and rhetoric

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SNP infighting, very successful vaccine rollout in UK and a big fuck up in the EU, likely economic boom after lockdown ends, all looking very sweet for this government at the moment.

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Harry Cole was allegedly still seeing Carrie Symonds when Boris and her starting getting it on.

Imagine still being happy to write toe curling puff pieces on the man who stole your maud, note the ’Up for the nup?’ part referring to possible future wedding plans. Fucking tories man. Everything is for sale.

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