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3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It is very depressing but there are signs that people are becoming fed up with the Tories across a national picture. The Tory sleaze stories are beginning to cut through and the more of those come out the more it’ll stop and make people think. 

But will they? Feels people genuinely don’t give care. Right now there’s a dangerous combination of an I’m alright jack attitude, social media bubbles and growing media disinformation. What is gonna put a stop to that?

And it’s not that people aren’t voting Labour because they see them as bad, there has been no concerted smear campaign against Starmer unlike against Corbyn Milliband and Brown. People are voting Tory as they genuinely believe that they share their views and hold their best interests at heart. And if people put aside any concern for others then maybe they do.

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Just now, Mimo said:

But will they? Feels people genuinely don’t give care. Right now there’s a dangerous combination of an I’m alright jack attitude, social media bubbles and growing media disinformation. What is gonna put a stop to that?

And it’s not that people aren’t voting Labour because they see them as bad, there has been no concerted smear campaign against Starmer unlike against Corbyn Milliband and Brown. People are voting Tory as they genuinely believe that they share their views and hold their best interests at heart. And if people put aside any concern for others then maybe they do.

Or that any criticism against boris is just a Labour smear campaign. But yes, I’ve seen many views that hungry children is the parents fault and not the fault of the government. 

 

2 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah I agree. It's not the end for Labour (I remember the 90s just about and before Blair it seemed like they'd never get in again). They are in a shit way at the moment though, no doubt. All the infighting and divisions within the party really don't help.

I'm wondering what will happen with these so-called red wall places when they realise the Tories don't give a fuck about them? If their lives don't substantially improve will they just stick with Tory for a bit longer or go elsewhere?

I think the change can only be generational. If anything we are seeing a generational change happening right now. Many red wall voters who had parents who would disown for voting Tory now growing confidence to vote for them due to various concerns of Brexit etc.

I think when the current ‘youth generation’ hopefully reach the age group of 35-60 we should see a voting shift. Until then nothing is going to change.

The 40+ vote in this country is overwhelmingly conservative. We won’t see any change until that lead dies down.

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1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Right yes - By socially conservative I probably mean more English nationalist, and no, that doesn’t mean racist before anyone says anything.

I’d disagree that nationalising utilities is popular though. And I don’t think the electorate hates rich people as much as the Labour Party think they do.


You are incorrect on both counts.

You’ve clearly never struggled to pay your lecky bills whilst the boss of British gas gets a £2mil bonus.

It isn’t about hating the rich, its about understanding, through your own lived experience of the struggle of every day life and the visible luxury of others’, that the system is unfair. I know that folk in towns like mine have an acute sense of that.

C15A11BE-03EA-4133-91BC-701E2C8BBF08.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Or that any criticism against boris is just a Labour smear campaign. But yes, I’ve seen many views that hungry children is the parents fault and not the fault of the government. 

 

I think the change can only be generational. If anything we are seeing a generational change happening right now. Many red wall voters who had parents who would disown for voting Tory now growing confidence to vote for them due to various concerns of Brexit etc.

I think when the current ‘youth generation’ hopefully reach the age group of 35-60 we should see a voting shift. Until then nothing is going to change.

The 40+ vote in this country is overwhelmingly conservative. We won’t see any change until that lead dies down.

I don't really agree. When Labour won in 1997 they took a load of lifelong Tory voters, many of whom have now switched back. People don't vote the same way their whole lives, as shown by the Hartlepool result, so I don't really buy this generational shift thing. 

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I’d just add that for those labour party supporters, you’re not going through this in isolation, they are exactly the same questions the Australian Labor Party are grappling with at the moment. Strong support in the cities, but losing traditional seats in the suburbs full of ‘aspirational’ voters and industrial towns  even against a scandal plagued government albeit made of Teflon.

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6 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

It's hard to find any sympathy for Labour this morning and the whole 'how did this happen?!' attitude given it's been happening in England's closest neighbour in real-time over the last decade or so.

any indication of how vote went in Scotland?

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Just now, steviewevie said:

any indication of how vote went in Scotland?

nothing yet, rumblings last night that both the SNP and the Tories were happy with their turnout, which probably only shows that SNP will be there or thereabouts for a majority and that the Tories will take 2nd place comfortably. But we already knew both of those were likely. Think we'll know more by later this afternoon.

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Just now, steviewevie said:

Need to also ask why labour picked the candidate they did? 

He lied well

6 minutes ago, Gregfc15 said:

I’d just add that for those labour party supporters, you’re not going through this in isolation, they are exactly the same questions the Australian Labor Party are grappling with at the moment. Strong support in the cities, but losing traditional seats in the suburbs full of ‘aspirational’ voters and industrial towns  even against a scandal plagued government albeit made of Teflon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasokification
 

the ’third way’ consensus of the 90s/00s left many a centre left party in ruins

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I think what’s going on though is a lot of red wall 40/50+ year old voters are coming into some mid life political awakening. As I’ve said before they feel more comfortable about voting Tory than they ever have. They would have been shamed to hell if they were Tory supporters in the past in such strong Labour heartlands.

I’m sorry and I hope it doesn’t offend but I always find this whenever I speak to my manc, Liverpool, Leeds etc friends about politics. They say this “well my family have always voted Labour and I would be absolutely shamed into oblivion if I ever voted anyone else”.

Please someone tell me I’m not alone in seeing this. The red wall support for Labour is generational and I think for a long time people have felt shame about turning on the Labour Party. It’s all happening in such a short space of time, and yes it was brexit that did it.

Its almost like when one valued employee leaves a company and then a mass exodus occurs. It gives people who feel the same, but can’t voice it, the confidence to leave.

Edited by Matt42
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6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Labour should roll the dice on Lisa Nandy.  Short skirt, low cut top and wrapped in the union Jack.

Should get a few northern hearts racing.

The problem with your posts a lot of the time is I can never tell whether your joking or being serious. In any case, that one is disgusting and you should delete it.

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8 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

 

I’m sorry and I hope it doesn’t offend but I always find this whenever I speak to my manc, Liverpool, Leeds etc friends about politics. They say this “well my family have always voted Labour and I would be absolutely shamed into oblivion if I ever voted anyone else”.

 


Lol it does not surprise me that your friends are like this. Birds of a feather and all that..

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28 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah I agree. It's not the end for Labour (I remember the 90s just about and before Blair it seemed like they'd never get in again). They are in a shit way at the moment though, no doubt. All the infighting and divisions within the party really don't help.

I'm wondering what will happen with these so-called red wall places when they realise the Tories don't give a fuck about them? If their lives don't substantially improve will they just stick with Tory for a bit longer or go elsewhere?


 

Have you ever considered that maybe the Tories DO care about them?

 

This sort of “same old Tories” attitude is a big part of why Labour is falling miles behind.

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7 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I think what’s going on though is a lot of red wall 40/50+ year old voters are coming into some mid life political awakening. As I’ve said before they feel more comfortable about voting Tory than they ever have. They would have been shamed to hell if they were Tory supporters in the past in such strong Labour heartlands.

I’m sorry and I hope it doesn’t offend but I always find this whenever I speak to my manc, Liverpool, Leeds etc friends about politics. They say this “well my family have always voted Labour and I would be absolutely shamed into oblivion if I ever voted anyone else”.

Please someone tell me I’m not alone in seeing this. The red wall support for Labour is generational and I think for a long time people have felt shame about turning on the Labour Party. It’s all happening in such a short space of time, and yes it was brexit that did it.

Its almost like when one valued employee leaves a company and then a mass exodus occurs. It gives people who feel the same, but can’t voice it, the confidence to leave.

yeah...think you're right...many people aren't ashamed to be voting tory anymore. They have been on a journey via ukip and brexit party. The country seems more divided over social/cultural lines than economic. Tories will want to keep it that way too.

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5 minutes ago, mattiloy said:


Lol it does not surprise me that your friends are like this. Birds of a feather and all that..

I don’t even know what you’re trying to say as I’m a Labour voter lol.

Unlike you I can sit down and discuss why my preferred party is tanking. I don’t stick my fingers in my ears and ignore it.

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Seemingly a lot of red wall towns like where I live have been left to rot for the past 20+ years - not necessarily the fault of Labour, but they haven’t done much to stop it happening, it has to be said. 
I really don’t blame anybody in my town that voted for another party this time round, i sense a lot of the public have had enough and simply want change in whatever format. Labour don’t have a given right to expect the seat just by turning up, and they aren’t doing much at all to earn it.
I think their sheer complacency is killing them, it’s self sabotage. 

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Are there any parties out there who have a policy of banning those stupid electric scooters?

Genuinely don't think you're ever further than 2 metres away from one in Bristol / Bath.

I actually had one overtake me in my car whilst driving at 35mph on Tuesday evening!

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5 minutes ago, st dan said:

Seemingly a lot of red wall towns like where I live have been left to rot for the past 20+ years - not necessarily the fault of Labour, but they haven’t done much to stop it happening, it has to be said. 
I really don’t blame anybody in my town that voted for another party this time round, i sense a lot of the public have had enough and simply want change in whatever format. Labour don’t have a given right to expect the seat just by turning up, and they aren’t doing much at all to earn it.
I think their sheer complacency is killing them, it’s self sabotage. 

Just have to see how levelling up promises go. Will take a lot of cash and investment to make any difference in these places...tories could get punished some time in the future if things don't seem to be improving.

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2 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Are there any parties out there who have a policy of banning those stupid electric scooters?

Genuinely don't think you're ever further than 2 metres away from one in Bristol / Bath.

I actually had one overtake me in my car whilst driving at 35mph on Tuesday evening!


 

A majority of voters in the UK favour bringing back hanging for murderers. I personally don’t think murderers should be hanged, but adults who use scooters should absolutely get the electric chair. 

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