news & politics:discussion

[Ozanne]

15 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Check through my posts and see that I have been consistent. In a moment where the leader of the opposition should have been gunning for the tories with everything he’s got, he’s been busy doing another boring relaunch. Or maybe this is everything he’s got. So even after the implosion of probably the worst government in living memory the tories are waltzing back into contention. Thats been my point from my first post on this right through to now.

But its impossible to argue with you because as everybody who engages with this thread sees you are blindly loyal and basically obsessed with Starmer. Its almost restraining order territory.

Yes I’m on the left but I am a pragmatist. If Starmer were 20 points ahead and wiping the floor with the tories then you’d have to say fair enough. But the appetite for blairism/cameronism/third way blandness has died a death in the UK. And rightly so. Because it couldn’t deliver. And it doesn’t have the answers to the deep, messy problems that the country faces. It is just autopilot politics.

Ah so now the speech by Starmer is a ‘boring relaunch’. Another new criticism I see after I’ve explained he’s done what you originally wanted. It wasn’t a relaunch, it was him expanding on a previous speech giving further depth to Labours economic plan. I suspect you haven’t even watched it though and are just spouting some trash you’ve seen on Twitter. What will the goalposts move to next?

So you’ve ignored all those achievements of his Labour Party and just responded with ‘20 points…’ once again making something else up. He’s wiping the floor with the Tories, they’ve had to replace their PM partly because of Starmers traps in the Commons. You will never give him any praise, just admit it.

I’m obsessed with the Tories being kicked out of power (and yes biased for Starmer too) but the thing is I admit it whereas you can’t do that. I will never apologise for being invested in politics/people that will make this country better and Starmer is the next choice we have of that. As you say the country has many issues facing it so we need him. Lucky for you hey that you don’t live here so you won’t be impacted by him. 
 

20 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Yeah. Be good if someone powerful would go on TV and explain nice and concisely what the problems with the current system are and how it should be fixed.

Without just saying ’well we’d simply fix the energy system’, ’no i don’t believe its necessary to nationalise energy, when you can simply fix it like i would’

Good one, ignore the serious point that the people in the UK rare facing because of your personal hatred of one man. This is a very serious thing and shouldn’t be made into your odd crusade against one man. 

[steviewevie]

25 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Yeah. Be good if someone powerful would go on TV and explain nice and concisely what the problems with the current system are and how it should be fixed.

Without just saying ’well we’d simply fix the energy system’, ’no i don’t believe its necessary to nationalise energy, when you can simply fix it like i would’

Martin Lewis?

[steviewevie]

 

[gary1979666]

34 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Ah so now the speech by Starmer is a ‘boring relaunch’. Another new criticism I see after I’ve explained he’s done what you originally wanted. It wasn’t a relaunch, it was him expanding on a previous speech giving further depth to Labours economic plan. I suspect you haven’t even watched it though and are just spouting some trash you’ve seen on Twitter. What will the goalposts move to next?

So you’ve ignored all those achievements of his Labour Party and just responded with ‘20 points…’ once again making something else up. He’s wiping the floor with the Tories, they’ve had to replace their PM partly because of Starmers traps in the Commons. You will never give him any praise, just admit it.

I’m obsessed with the Tories being kicked out of power (and yes biased for Starmer too) but the thing is I admit it whereas you can’t do that. I will never apologise for being invested in politics/people that will make this country better and Starmer is the next choice we have of that. As you say the country has many issues facing it so we need him. Lucky for you hey that you don’t live here so you won’t be impacted by him. 
 

Good one, ignore the serious point that the people in the UK rare facing because of your personal hatred of one man. This is a very serious thing and shouldn’t be made into your odd crusade against one man. 

I don't think Starmer had much to do with Boris going if I'm honest.  Boris did all this to himself. If anything, Starmer's beer in Durham diverted attention away from the shitshow of Johnson.  I know he was cleared, but that beer is on a par with Sunak turning up early for a meeting and getting fined because they had premeeting cake.  Same with the polls - it's not a pull factor for people voting labour - it's people deserting the Tories. 

I'm not saying Starmer is terrible either though.  I'm a centrist who voted Tory a lot in the past (not Bojo) and am considering voting Labour if Truss gets in.  His approach to the unions is right - he needs to win over those who voted Tory in the past to stand a chance of getting in power.  Pandering to the unions would put them right off.  He's solid, which is what the country needs after Johnson / Truss, but he needs a bit more spark to get it right.

I also think you unwavering support of him makes others dislike him more.  Telling someone that because they live in a different country that they shouldn't care is really odd.  I'll always have a link to the UK wherever I live. It'll always be my business what happens here.  

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, gary1979666 said:

I don't think Starmer had much to do with Boris going if I'm honest.  Boris did all this to himself. If anything, Starmer's beer in Durham diverted attention away from the shitshow of Johnson.  I know he was cleared, but that beer is on a par with Sunak turning up early for a meeting and getting fined because they had premeeting cake.  Same with the polls - it's not a pull factor for people voting labour - it's people deserting the Tories. 

I'm not saying Starmer is terrible either though.  I'm a centrist who voted Tory a lot in the past (not Bojo) and am considering voting Labour if Truss gets in.  His approach to the unions is right - he needs to win over those who voted Tory in the past to stand a chance of getting in power.  Pandering to the unions would put them right off.  He's solid, which is what the country needs after Johnson / Truss, but he needs a bit more spark to get it right.

I also think you unwavering support of him makes others dislike him more.  Telling someone that because they live in a different country that they shouldn't care is really odd.  I'll always have a link to the UK wherever I live. It'll always be my business what happens here.  

The traps Starmer laid and then Johnson fell into are part of the reason for Johnson’s downfall. Starmer was able to get the Commons to vote for Privileges Committee investigation which was a massive achievement and still could lead to massive bother for Johnson.

My unwavering support is partly because I’m an incredibly loyal person, when I’m invested/support someone I stick by them and will go to bat for them even when I can see that they have their faults too.

I never said he shouldn’t care because he doesn’t live here. I asked why he gets so bothered about a politician in another country where he has to moan on here all the time. By all means care about your home country but this goes way beyond that.

[Neil]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

owen jones can be a bit of a twat. He's deleted that tweet, right?

Twat is his default. 

[steviewevie]

 

[pink_triangle]

To me there is a balance between what support labour can offer trade unions striking in opposition and what the general electorate are willing to accept which will let labour form a government and get in power to legislate to improve workers rights.

Many of a clear idea what the balance should be. I am obviously stupid because I don't know. I have some sympathy for Starmer as I know how the conservatives would want him to act, so not doing that has some sense. What labour can't be is the worlds biggest protest party, cleverer people than me need to make the judgement what the general public will accept.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

To me there is a balance between what support labour can offer trade unions striking in opposition and what the general electorate are willing to accept which will let labour form a government and get in power to legislate to improve workers rights.

Many of a clear idea what the balance should be. I am obviously stupid because I don't know. I have some sympathy for Starmer as I know how the conservatives would want him to act, so not doing that has some sense. What labour can't be is the worlds biggest protest party, cleverer people than me need to make the judgement what the general public will accept.

Yeah I agree..but at same time by sacking this bloke looks like he's picking a fight with unions. I appreciate that starmer was left in a tricky position, but if he just ignored it and maybe had a quiet word it wouldn't be the story it is today. 

Maybe.

He needs to appreciate that to many in Labour the links with the unions is literally what it's all about, but at same time others need to appreciate Labour can't actually do anything unless in power. And the only time they have won in last 50 odd years is under Blair.

[gary1979666]

39 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The traps Starmer laid and then Johnson fell into are part of the reason for Johnson’s downfall. Starmer was able to get the Commons to vote for Privileges Committee investigation which was a massive achievement and still could lead to massive bother for Johnson.

My unwavering support is partly because I’m an incredibly loyal person, when I’m invested/support someone I stick by them and will go to bat for them even when I can see that they have their faults too.

I never said he shouldn’t care because he doesn’t live here. I asked why he gets so bothered about a politician in another country where he has to moan on here all the time. By all means care about your home country but this goes way beyond that.

I'm not saying he didn't do anything, but in the grand scheme of things he was flicking Johnson's ears, which Boris was slitting his own wrists. 

That loyalty is coming across as blind loyalty, which makes others question your judgement.  I don't think there's anyone else on the forum who presents such a one sided view on a politician.  Even people sympathetic to your view will turn against such an opinion.

[steviewevie]

 

[pink_triangle]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yeah I agree..but at same time by sacking this bloke looks like he's picking a fight with unions. I appreciate that starmer was left in a tricky position, but if he just ignored it and maybe had a quiet word it wouldn't be the story it is today. 

 

The bloke acted in a way that he knew would result in him getting sacked, I don't think there was any other outcome. Once collective responsibility is eroded then the cabinet/shadow cabinet can't function.

[steviewevie]

18 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The bloke acted in a way that he knew would result in him getting sacked, I don't think there was any other outcome. Once collective responsibility is eroded then the cabinet/shadow cabinet can't function.

he was on his way out with this reselection thing anyway, right? Maybe he wanted to do a bit of damage on his way out, or maybe he think it will help him get selected elsewhere? Or...maybe he has certain principles...

[pink_triangle]

Just now, steviewevie said:

he was on his way out with this reselection thing anyway, right? Maybe he wanted to do a bit of damage on his way out, or maybe he think it will help him get selected elsewhere? Or...maybe he has certain principles...

He could have resigned if it was about principles.

[Ozanne]

21 minutes ago, gary1979666 said:

I'm not saying he didn't do anything, but in the grand scheme of things he was flicking Johnson's ears, which Boris was slitting his own wrists. 

That loyalty is coming across as blind loyalty, which makes others question your judgement.  I don't think there's anyone else on the forum who presents such a one sided view on a politician.  Even people sympathetic to your view will turn against such an opinion.

I realise he has his faults I just decide to not bring them up as that’s not how I support someone one I support. Besides a lot of what Starmer is doing I genuinely believe is the right thing to do and I see how it is in service of getting Labour into power. I’ll happily be the number 1 Starmer fan on this forum, I’d wear it like a damn badge of honour. 

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’ll happily be the number 1 Starmer fan on this forum, I’d wear it like a damn badge of honour. 

Probs the most tragic thing that's ever been typed on this forum and that's saying something

[steviewevie]

41 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Interesting that Larry Elliott thinks Truss would be shit, but Sunak even worse.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

and not sure McDonnell's argument about labour MPs joining picket lines in the 70s is as good as he thinks it is, seeing as Labour got kicked out of power and remained out of power for 18 years until the centrist satan Blair came along.

[Ozanne]

Apparently Nadine Dorries has said that only ‘some’ peoples bills will rise by the amounts states. We are sleepwalking to disaster 🤦‍♂️

[lost]

I took out a two fix in Sept 2021 till 2023. Still get the handouts too 😁

[Ozanne]

25 minutes ago, lost said:

I took out a two fix in Sept 2021 till 2023. Still get the handouts too 😁

Lucky you. My old provider went bust last year so I was put on a variable and haven’t been able to find a fixed that’s anywhere near decent. 

[gary1979666]

51 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Lucky you. My old provider went bust last year so I was put on a variable and haven’t been able to find a fixed that’s anywhere near decent. 

My fix ended in May - no other supplier wants to offer me anything.

Still, hopefully if i move house in the next fortnight, I can lock in a 10yr mortgage fix before the rates get higher.

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, gary1979666 said:

My fix ended in May - no other supplier wants to offer me anything.

Still, hopefully if i move house in the next fortnight, I can lock in a 10yr mortgage fix before the rates get higher.

Good luck, I hope you’ll be able to find a good deal.

[gary1979666]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Good luck, I hope you’ll be able to find a good deal.

I sorted one a few months ago, just waiting to move to secure it. If it falls through, then back to square one.  Fixed for 10yrs at 2.34%, but same parameters now is 3.59% - is only going to go up now.

[lost]

Might not be as bad as feared. The US has just gone into recession today and yields are plummeting on the news. Can't see us being too far behind.