news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Most of the country don’t want that though. Especially people who earn less than you.

they don't want better funded services? 

Of course they do. One of the big selling points for brexit was more money for NHS. Johnson is now promising to level up, investing in public services and at same time creating jobs in areas that feel left behind.

[HalfAnIdiot]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’d happily pay more in tax if meant better public services, shorter wait time on the NHS etc. Even though I might in theory be better off under a Tory government I would rather have better funded services and an all round economy that was fairer for everyone. 

Me too. Why is it so difficult for Labour to project an inspiring visionary image along these lines. They just come a cross as dull and confused. 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

I’m just sick of these students on Twitter saying it’s the southerners STILL.

The north is just as Tory as the south now.

maybe labour need to give up on red wall for now and target southern middle class areas with socially liberal stuff.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

maybe labour need to give up on red wall for now and target southern middle class areas with socially liberal stuff.

They already have and it isn’t working

[Fuzzy Afro]

20 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Okay then you are a beneficiary of public spending.

Wouldn’t you rather have a shorter, better commute than be able to afford a starbucks coffee a day vs taking a flask.

When you’re old, wouldn’t you rather wait half the time for a hip transplant rather than being able to afford a gold plated walking stick whilst you waited..

You get what you pay for and the tories have decimated public services.

 

Don’t worry, you wouldn’t. We’ve had a tory government for the last 10 years - not counting any gains from personal endeavour (job move, promotion, investments) - ie if you’d stayed in the same spot as you were a decade ago and your salary had gone up by the industry average for that level of seniority per year- is your situation better now?

I could get a hip replacement next week if a doctor decided today that I needed one. The NHS is a bureaucratic nightmare and frankly, it’s best avoided for non-emergencies if you can afford health insurance. 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

They already have and it isn’t working

we'll see in a few years at next general election.

[mattiloy]

5 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I’m just sick of these students on Twitter saying it’s the southerners STILL.

The north is just as Tory as the south now.

 

Would you ever cease your hysterical BS? Here weighted by population. Since 1066, the north has and always will be a glorious bastion of honest and decent folk vs the softie tory south. Away with your tory shenanigans.

Edited May 7, 2021 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Zacko said:

Woah

woah?

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, Haan said:

Good analysis here imo. A lot of the "red wall" working class own their own homes, the demographic of the working class has changed so much, there *is* a disconnect between the liberal cities and the northern towns but for deeper reasons than people act like here, the inner city labour workers are as working class as those in the northern towns, but they seem to care about different things. 

I agree with the first part of the first bit the last bit ignores the positivity that spaffer gives while Labour says the country is a racist heap of shit. That positivity is important in getting across that a vote for me will lead to better times.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, mattiloy said:

 

Would you ever cease your hysterical BS? Here weighted by population. Since 1066, the north has and always will be a glorious bastion of honest and decent folk vs the softie tory south. Away with your tory shenanigans.

is that the map of britain as seen with different types of drugs?

[steviewevie]

Just now, eFestivals said:

Labour says the country is a racist heap of shit

?

[Matt42]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they don't want better funded services? 

Of course they do. One of the big selling points for brexit was more money for NHS. Johnson is now promising to level up, investing in public services and at same time creating jobs in areas that feel left behind.

People like public services when there is an emergency. Once COVID is over they will go back to enjoying nurses are lazy and overpaid stories in the papers.

The NHS was nothing to do with the Brexit vote. It was about nationalism and potentially less foreigners. Britain first.

[ace56blaa]

25 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

If only to be poor in one of the most beautiful parts of the country with you and all your Tory pals who all went to university and now get to discuss the right and wrong of how brexit affects places like Bury.  Yeah your representative 

Okay I get it now. So I'm not allowed to call myself poor despite suffering for money my whole life, despite being taken away by child services, despite being on UC. Only northerners really suffer. I should be grateful that I was born in Cambridgeshire cause now I'm poor in the most expensive part of the country. I'm a liberal in a bubble despite living in a tory majority,  - Huntingdon and Peterborough are also in Cambridgeshire. And they are such lovely places to live......

Jesus Christ are you really like this? Judging people based on where they few up. If you live South you should never gets complain? If you live North you're a racist and too dumb to do anything about it? Is this seriously your argument?

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

 

Would you ever cease your hysterical BS? Here weighted by population. Since 1066, the north has and always will be a glorious bastion of honest and decent folk vs the softie tory south. Away with your tory shenanigans.

The idea that only Labour is fair minded and righteous is where it all starts going wrong for labour. It's calling everyone else worthless shit who's opinions don't matter.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Matt42 said:

People like public services when there is an emergency. Once COVID is over they will go back to enjoying nurses are lazy and overpaid stories in the papers.

The NHS was nothing to do with the Brexit vote. It was about nationalism and potentially less foreigners. Britain first.

It was all over Boris' bus. Cummings did his focus groups and people loved the NHS and thought it should get more money, they didn't like immigrants, and they didn't like muslims.....so it was all more money for the NHS and if we stay in the EU we will be swamped by Turkish migrants.

[Matt42]

5 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

 

Would you ever cease your hysterical BS? Here weighted by population. Since 1066, the north has and always will be a glorious bastion of honest and decent folk vs the softie tory south. Away with your tory shenanigans.

Man. Northerners like you have spent generations pointing fingers at the south and blaming them for the size of the Tory majority. You’re not quite ready yet to understand that the north is the reason why Labour are getting shafted right now, especially since they’ve lost Scotland and are losing Wales.

What you’ve just shown me is that the Labour vote in the cities got more concentrated and the regions more Tory. You’ve just proven my point excellently.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Matt42

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

?

No so much Labour but many of their supporters.

 

That sort of stuff doesn't pass other people by... Those other people don't want to have their opinions dismissed.

[HalfAnIdiot]

4 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Because people know you can't have nice things without the economy to pay for it.  People don't trust Labour with the economy or the nations finances.

Not really. Most people don't have a clue about how the economy works or how healthy it is. They tend to believe the most convincing sounding voice. 

Labour need to demonstrate some leadership and inspire people. We currently look like a one-party state with a permanent opposition. Worst of all Labour don't seem to mind.... 

[steviewevie]

Just now, eFestivals said:

No so much Labour but many of their supporters.

 

That sort of stuff doesn't pass other people by... Those other people don't want to have their opinions dismissed.

yeah, but they are racist.

[Zacko]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

woah?

Seeing it like that on a map was just a bit depressing! 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Zacko said:

Seeing it like that on a map was just a bit depressing! 

yes, I didn't mean it as a good thing....

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

Oh look a Labour supporter calling people stupid again

If the hat fits.... 

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, but they are racist.

Less diverse and exposed to London, Manchester, Bristol, Brighton, etc which are extremely multi-cultured and diverse cities.

If they only know of people in the abstract and what they read about in the papers they won’t sympathise with them or understand social issues. They base all their reference point on social issues on the lives they know, their own.

[mattiloy]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Man. Northerners like you have spent generations pointing fingers at the south and blaming them for the size of the Tory majority. You’re not quite ready yet to explain that the north is the reason why Labour are getting shafted right now, especially since they’ve lost Scotland and are losing Wales.

What you’ve just shown me is that the Labour vote in the cities got more concentrated and the regions more Tory. You’ve just proven my point excellently.

So what you’re saying is.... Labour have done bad everywhere as a result of pasokification seen across the world after the failure of neoliberal third way politics and despite you admitting that they have in fact lost more votes in Scotland and Wales and are basically universally unpopular - its all the Norths fault.

Sometimes your idiocy knows no bounds. 

[Ozanne]

19 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Most of the country don’t want that though. Especially people who earn less than you.

That’s fine, I’m hopeful that in time people will want to support better funded public services with the right messaging from the Labour Party.

14 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Me too. Why is it so difficult for Labour to project an inspiring visionary image along these lines. They just come a cross as dull and confused. 

Maybe it’s because I follow politics news a lot and really don’t like the Tories but I find Labours messaging engaging and an inspired but what they say; at both a local level and national level. I realise I am not like the masses though, I don’t mean that as passive aggressive jab at other people.