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Just now, Homer said:

Surely Davis wouldn't have done that without consulting some of the main players first? Must be more big-hitters planning to follow his lead.

You’d have thought so, I doubt the Covid update today will make many change their minds considering everything else that has gone on.

That Davis question was really damaging. 

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Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

Edited by mattiloy
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3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

middle ground...centrism...you love it.

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3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

I'm guessing it was more driven by self-preservation than ideology.

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3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

I'd say he has no ideology, he just knows he'd be out of a seat at the next election if he stays Tory.

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1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

To be fair the SNP have held the same tone throughout - its a bit the boy crying wolf with them...  Its why its important for Starmer not to do it every week...

whilst I agree , it shows his contempt for parliament at the same time ....  like its all some kind of joke or game the kind of response you'd expect from a child trying to annoy his parents when being told off .... 

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37 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

That very question puts an importance on ideology that not everyone - voters or MPs - shares.

Some MPs genuinely get into politics because they want to do their best as a representative for their constituency, and they'll join whichever party allows them to do so - even if they have to vote for a bunch of things they don't entirely agree with.

Looked at through a more cynical lens: some MPs genuinely get into politics because of ambition and a burning desire for power, and they'll join whichever party facilitates this - even if they have to vote for a bunch of things they don't entirely agree with.

And for voters, yes beliefs matter, but so does character and action on local issues. If an MP is seen to be "doing a good job" with things that voters in the constituency care about, then they can still win elections even when their ideology is shockingly out of step with the electorate.

Basically, people are complicated and ideology isn't everything.

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55 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Its probably where you find the best of politics to be honest...

 

44 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

Agreed. As boring as it can be, a centrist, moderate approach is usually the one that upsets the least people and has the best chance of succeeding.


After decades of centrist politics, with the UK lurching from crisis to crisis for much of that time and with the nearly static growth in real disposable income since 1997 and household debt increasing enormously, then you both conclude that more centrism is needed..

If people are worse off and the political system has deteriorated to such an extent, call me crazy but I’d start to wonder if maybe something needed to change.

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Edited by mattiloy
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