news & politics:discussion

[Ozanne]

This is like a D:Ream.

[steviewevie]

 

[Ozanne]

 

 

[gigpusher]

2 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Dear lord - listening to you two its like no other country exists or has reasonable TV 🙂 

All you are missing is a few flags in the the background (all the rage these days)

Shows how little you know me. I'm not even British  (very much not a flag waver of any description) and I say this from the point of view of knowing a little about tv in other countries and having read many things from people from different countries and the BBC is one of the few things that is admired about Britain. I very much don't agree with British exceptionalism I think it's a myth that a lot of idiots believe in and those idiots wanting to dismantle one of the few great things they have is proof of it. 

[Ozanne]

 

 

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

 

He's fucked.

[steviewevie]

Maybe the house of lords isn't so bad after all.

 

[steviewevie]

[Ryan1984]

9 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Why is it a ‘crucial accusation’ that he lied to Parliament? It would be more of a surprise if he actually told the truth.

[Neil]

12 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Why is it a ‘crucial accusation’ that he lied to Parliament? It would be more of a surprise if he actually told the truth.

possiblky because theres this idea that he has to resign if he lied, its not true, he doesn't have to.

[Lycra]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

possiblky because theres this idea that he has to resign if he lied, its not true, he doesn't have to.

Subtle change in tone from Raab this morning on the Beeb acknowledging PM lying to Parliament is a resignation issue.

Also note push back on latest headline grabbing announcements has begun. MOD bods saying they will not repel migrants!

[steviewevie]

[Ryan1984]

2 hours ago, Neil said:

possiblky because theres this idea that he has to resign if he lied, its not true, he doesn't have to.

Hasn’t he lied a fair few times before in there and nothing has happened?

[squirrelarmy]

3 hours ago, Neil said:

possiblky because theres this idea that he has to resign if he lied, its not true, he doesn't have to.

It’s all based on being an upstanding and honest representative of the people. If you’re proven to be a liar then if you have any sense of honour and dignity then your resignation should be tendered. 
 

The problem is that spaffer has no principles or honour and should never have really been given the job in the first place. 

[mattiloy]

My home constituency is in the red wall, I have been seeing and hearing a lot of working class tory types very pissed off with Johnson. These are usually fairly stubborn folk- ’the north remembers’ you could say.

Whilst I do think that the prospects who might replace him are generally fairly lacklustre, I think Johnson continuing is probably the better scenario for Starmer’s prospects. 

I know that centrists, who tend to vote based on who they fancy more, might disagree because they loath Boris.

Its starting to look increasingly out of anybody’s hands now anyway. But it’ll be a shame if there is a quick change in leader and the lead is squandered by summer, with Starmer then having to compete on actual policy, which he is extraordinarily weak on. 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

My home constituency is in the red wall, I have been seeing and hearing a lot of working class tory types very pissed off with Johnson. These are usually fairly stubborn folk- ’the north remembers’ you could say.

Whilst I do think that the prospects who might replace him are generally fairly lacklustre, I think Johnson continuing is probably the better scenario for Starmer’s prospects. 

I know that centrists, who tend to vote based on who they fancy more, might disagree because they loath Boris.

Its starting to look increasingly out of anybody’s hands now anyway. But it’ll be a shame if there is a quick change in leader and the lead is squandered by summer, with Starmer then having to compete on actual policy, which he is extraordinarily weak on. 

yeah...I'm in two minds...hard to know if getting rid of Johnson or him staying helps labour or not in the long run...Johnson may now be unpopular in red wall, but would any other leader be more popular?

If tories stay in power though I think I'd actually rather Johnson there than Sunak and especially Truss.

I can't imagine Johnson will be able to hang on till next election, but who knows.

[maelzoid]

I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't want 3 more years of Bozza just to make a Starmer win more likely. He needs to go and in disgrace, because he's fucking awful. I don't want to live in a country where the kind of behaviour that he displays is rewarded. It's on the Tory party to do the right thing and sling him out.

[Crazyfool01]

We also don’t know what DC has in his back pocket on the rest of them … kick Boris out now I’d say and see what develops … 

[Ozanne]

If you want the Tories out of power then you should want Johnson gone as quickly as possible in my mind. He isn’t going to lead the Tories into the next General Election as they won’t let him, he’s too toxic for that now. So we should want Labour to have as much time as possible to show up the new PM as traditionally a new PM gets a short bounce in the polls before the public start to see what they are truly about. All the candidates will be shown up eventually but if the Tories leave it late, get rid of Johnson then their new leader calls an early election they could win it due to the honeymoon period. 

[Gingerfish79]

2 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't want 3 more years of Bozza just to make a Starmer win more likely. He needs to go and in disgrace, because he's fucking awful. I don't want to live in a country where the kind of behaviour that he displays is rewarded. It's on the Tory party to do the right thing and sling him out.

I completely agree, he needs to be forced out now and with his tail so firmly between his legs that all the other cheerleaders in the Cabinet will know that this abuse of public office will never be tolerated again. 

And besides, I think the whole sorry mess would crumble like a pack of cards if he can be forced out. There isn't a competent minister between them and they know it, including Sunak.

[mattiloy]

53 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...I'm in two minds...hard to know if getting rid of Johnson or him staying helps labour or not in the long run...Johnson may now be unpopular in red wall, but would any other leader be more popular?

If tories stay in power though I think I'd actually rather Johnson there than Sunak and especially Truss.

I can't imagine Johnson will be able to hang on till next election, but who knows.

From what I’ve seen and heard a lot of the anger is focused on Johnson. I think that its gotten to the point that Corbyn was at that he himself has become the issue for many voters.

I think Sunak, Truss et al will be totally lacklustre in the light of day. But they won’t be Johnson and eventually it’ll be a straight footrace between one of them and a thusfar uninspiring Starmer for the next election.

So I think its either Johnson stays and Starmer doesn’t have to do anything much to waltz into No 10, or he’s replaced and Starmer has to compete. Can he beat Truss/Sunak/whoever? Who knows. I hope so. I think there could be a big appetite for the ’change’ candidate after a decade of tory underperformance, Brexit underperformance, covid, sleeze. So maybe he had an edge going into a campaign. But he’ll have to sell his offer to the public.

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by mattiloy

[Ozanne]

29 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't want 3 more years of Bozza just to make a Starmer win more likely. He needs to go and in disgrace, because he's fucking awful. I don't want to live in a country where the kind of behaviour that he displays is rewarded. It's on the Tory party to do the right thing and sling him out.

This is also very true, for the good of the country he needs to go.

Besides there is no chance the Tories will let him lead them into the next GE.

[Ozanne]

 

[Crazyfool01]

meanwhile Boris stands by his bed 

Boris Johnson "categorically" denies anyone warned him the No 10 drinks party broke lockdown rules

[Homer]

33 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

I completely agree, he needs to be forced out now and with his tail so firmly between his legs that all the other cheerleaders in the Cabinet will know that this abuse of public office will never be tolerated again. 

And besides, I think the whole sorry mess would crumble like a pack of cards if he can be forced out. There isn't a competent minister between them and they know it, including Sunak.

Populism does seem to have a nasty habit of imploding doesn't it?