mattiloy Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, steviewevie said: Errr...ok... For starters corbyn didn't bring in one member one vote, Milliband did. I am not that against the electoral college thing as I have argued with mattiloy about, although I think starmer risks turning conference into an internal labour fight instead of setting out his vision, and if that happens everyone will just switch off from it. Starmer is just making more and more enemies within labour. If he was polling well like Blair then you could argue that this could be the way to go, but he isn't, and I think it's all going to end badly. Yes. You feel at this stage he is going for broke. Clearly he’s decided that the Labour party will only win if it takes a great leap to the centre, and knows that he is limited in how quickly and how far to the centre he can lurch unless he bends the party to his will by driving out the left and rigging internal votes/elections. Its a big gamble, if he’s right and what the british public want is a centrist, globalist, pro eu, new-new-labour, he might win the next election. If it doesn’t come off it might well be the ruination of the labour party. Edited September 22, 2021 by mattiloy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, mattiloy said: Yes. You feel at this stage he is going for broke. Clearly he’s decided that the Labour party will only win if it takes a great leap to the centre, and knows that he is limited in how quickly and how far to the centre he can lurch unless he bends the party to his will by driving out the left and rigging internal votes/elections. Its a big gamble, if he’s right and what the british public want is a centrist, globalist, pro eu, new-new-labour, he might win the next election. If it doesn’t come off it might well be the ruination of the labour party. I don't know...I reckon he just wants to distance himself from corbyn as much as poss to try to appeal to red wall voters...so centre left on economy, but likes the queen, tough on crime, prepared to nuke etc etc. I reckon he's more milliband than blair, but...yeah...lets see. I've defended him like fuck on here, but it's getting harder and harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedgeAntilles Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 Some speculation that Starmer is already planning his exit and trying to lay the ground for his successor. Wouldn't surprise me, it's all gone pear-shaped for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 Just now, SwedgeAntilles said: Some speculation that Starmer is already planning his exit and trying to lay the ground for his successor. Wouldn't surprise me, it's all gone pear-shaped for him. I doubt it’s specifically that, he’s probably doing it to lay a ground for his successor but probably not because he’s planning an imminent exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said: Some speculation that Starmer is already planning his exit and trying to lay the ground for his successor. Wouldn't surprise me, it's all gone pear-shaped for him. I don't know, I think he's pretty safe for a while and wants to stay put. I have no idea who his successor coule be, Reeves I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 The NHS ten hours for an ambulance, and then refusing to discharge people because they need treatment the NHS can't deliver, and if you self discharge they punish you by refusing to give you the treatment they couldn't give you, when the system is that mad, it isn't going to last much longer, have finally got on a list for some physiotherapy, despite the NHS runaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 My electric company has gone bust, I’ll be put on a new tariff etc. This whole situation is a mess, apparently the government were warned about this in March 2020 by Ofgem as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfool01 Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 Just reading about similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 2 hours ago, SwedgeAntilles said: Some speculation that Starmer is already planning his exit and trying to lay the ground for his successor. Wouldn't surprise me, it's all gone pear-shaped for him. There's a long list of great candidates to succeed him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, steviewevie said: I don't know...I reckon he just wants to distance himself from corbyn as much as poss to try to appeal to red wall voters...so centre left on economy, but likes the queen, tough on crime, prepared to nuke etc etc. I reckon he's more milliband than blair, but...yeah...lets see. I've defended him like fuck on here, but it's getting harder and harder. I dunno, a lot of it is internal stuff that isn’t going to reach the bitter old sun reading corbyn haters out there in the red wall. And if he were to go in a miliband direction on policy and appointments, or even in a blue labour direction, would it not be a fairly acceptable compromise to many on the left? So to me it seems like its worse than that, otherwise he wouldn’t need sto chase the left out and rig stuff. Any road, it’ll all come out in the wash one way or the other. The worst bit with politics is you can’t fast forward. Edited September 22, 2021 by mattiloy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 well, there's Starmer's 14000 word essay to look forward to...and somehow Politics For All have got hold of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/22/keir-starmer-essay-sets-labour-on-course-for-centre-ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, steviewevie said: That Twitter account is so full of it, it was sent out to all journalists this morning under an embargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 Starmer...saying a bunch of stuff.....might work with getting back tory voters...is definitely not going to please many on the left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted September 22, 2021 Report Share Posted September 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, steviewevie said: Starmer...saying a bunch of stuff.....might work with getting back tory voters...is definitely not going to please many on the left... Interesting read, pretty much laying the foundations for his speech at Conference with some snippets as to what a Labour government under Starmer would offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelarmy Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 Spaffer has made a statement to the BBC saying that there won’t be food shortages and there’s no need to panic buy. Looks like that we’re heading into a winter full of empty shelves. Better buy some bog roll and pasta now 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfool01 Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said: Spaffer has made a statement to the BBC saying that there won’t be food shortages and there’s no need to panic buy. Looks like that we’re heading into a winter full of empty shelves. Better buy some bog roll and pasta now 😂 Oh joy … I’m so looking forward to this bollocks once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelarmy Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said: Oh joy … I’m so looking forward to this bollocks once again We’ll be fine as long as we cancel Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 9 hours ago, steviewevie said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/22/keir-starmer-essay-sets-labour-on-course-for-centre-ground Feels more David Cameron than anything. Capitalism with a conscience, family, ’patriotism’ and unionism, its straying into similar to ’the big society’ rhetoric. I think it’ll probably manage to woo a number of lib dem and soft tory voters daan saaf but it feels like they’ve given up on the red wall and on Scotland and Wales if they base their election campaign on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 hours ago, mattiloy said: Feels more David Cameron than anything. Capitalism with a conscience, family, ’patriotism’ and unionism, its straying into similar to ’the big society’ rhetoric. I think it’ll probably manage to woo a number of lib dem and soft tory voters daan saaf but it feels like they’ve given up on the red wall and on Scotland and Wales if they base their election campaign on this. yeah, a lot of it is bollocks, but if that's what he needs to do to try and win over people who have switched from labour to tory/libdem, or maybe liberal tories who don't like Johnson...then why not. Like you say, he has to win over a lot of people, and this probably won't be enough...he basically needs bojo's government to fuck it up to stand any chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 It's all here. https://fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/The-Road-Ahead-KEIR-STARMER_web.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, steviewevie said: yeah, a lot of it is bollocks, but if that's what he needs to do to try and win over people who have switched from labour to tory/libdem, or maybe liberal tories who don't like Johnson...then why not. Like you say, he has to win over a lot of people, and this probably won't be enough...he basically needs bojo's government to fuck it up to stand any chance. Yeah but it does actually make it difficult to predict with Labour target seats in a lot of places that have been tory or lib dem for a long time and even maybe in more rural seats. You feel that with first past the post, even given everything, that all it might end up taking is a continued poor performance by Boris govt and a low turnout at the next election and it could still end up a hung parliament. A hung parliament with big concessions like indyref2 and consitutional reform would be an absolute dream scenario. Perversely if Starmer did just that, despite being personally rubbish, he’d probably wind up being the most important politician in modern history in the uk. Politics…bloody hell Edited September 23, 2021 by mattiloy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelarmy Posted September 23, 2021 Report Share Posted September 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, mattiloy said: Perversely if Starmer did just that, despite being personally rubbish, he’d probably wind up being the most important politician in modern history in the uk. You only think he’s rubbish because he’s not Corbyn. The rest of us think he’s great because he’s not Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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