news & politics:discussion

[DeanoL]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the Labour party has never represented my views but that hasn't stopped me supporting them at every election, as they're the best vehicle for my political wants to come about, but they're not a party that exists just for me, so its hardly surprising that we're in different places. It would be a bit odd if i spent all of my time trying to weaken their chances of sucess.

Likewise. But you're not a member and you're not donating to them right? You were criticising people choosing not to be members of the Labour party, where you make the same choice yourself.

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Likewise. But you're not a member and you're not donating to them right? You were criticising people choosing not to be members of the Labour party, where you make the same choice yourself.

They're chosng to take their ball back, which is something I've never done myself.ive always seen that it's too flawed to play a straight game,and have never hitched all of my hopes to it.

[DeanoL]

25 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

They're chosng to take their ball back, which is something I've never done myself.ive always seen that it's too flawed to play a straight game,and have never hitched all of my hopes to it.

Which in a way, is why Kier has a problem. The Corbynites are "taking the ball back" which is fair enough as the party is no longer what they want it to be. Doesn't mean they won't still vote Labour, it's just not something they want to fund. But then what we're not seeing is all the centrists that Corbyn apparently scared off coming back and putting in dues themselves. I'd wager most think along the same line as you - you're happier to vote for them now but the system is still broken and you won't put your hard-earned down. Don't blame you.

But that's the issue - idealism, be it realistic or not, does fire people up enough to want to join the party and put money in. Centrism might get more votes, but it doesn't excite anyone enough to make them put their hands in their wallet.

[gigpusher]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Which in a way, is why Kier has a problem. The Corbynites are "taking the ball back" which is fair enough as the party is no longer what they want it to be. Doesn't mean they won't still vote Labour, it's just not something they want to fund. But then what we're not seeing is all the centrists that Corbyn apparently scared off coming back and putting in dues themselves. I'd wager most think along the same line as you - you're happier to vote for them now but the system is still broken and you won't put your hard-earned down. Don't blame you.

But that's the issue - idealism, be it realistic or not, does fire people up enough to want to join the party and put money in. Centrism might get more votes, but it doesn't excite anyone enough to make them put their hands in their wallet.

I'll be honest I don't think I'd ever join any political party. If there was a not the tories fund I could contribute to that would be shared amongst more left/centrist parties to work together to get rid of them then hell yeah but I never fully agree with any party to want to align myself with them and I will always absolutely vote tactically in an anyone but Tory way. 

[mattiloy]

[eFestivals]

19 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Which in a way, is why Kier has a problem. The Corbynites are "taking the ball back" which is fair enough as the party is no longer what they want it to be.

THE PARTY WAS NEVER WHAT THEY IMAGINED IT WAS, AND ITS THEIR IMAGINATION WHICH IS THE PROBLEM, IMAGINING THAT STARMER IS A FASCIST, AND OTHER STUFF WHICH SHOWS THEIR THINKING AS WELL OFF THE MARK!.

[Ozanne]

This is quite interesting:

 

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

THE PARTY WAS NEVER WHAT THEY IMAGINED IT WAS, AND ITS THEIR IMAGINATION WHICH IS THE PROBLEM, IMAGINING THAT STARMER IS A FASCIST, AND OTHER STUFF WHICH SHOWS THEIR THINKING AS WELL OFF THE MARK!.

In the history of centre left parties, Labour included, third way politics is the exception.

Third way politics is dead. It was the dominant ideology in the western world for the best part of two decades and it didn’t deliver. Characterised by rising inequality, sluggish productivity, booming house prices, US imperialist wars, and culminating in a massive global recession as a result of the low regulation, short termism and greed of financial institutions. Sure start simply wasn’t worth it..

Blairites should have conceded the failure of their dogma and left en masse after 2010 but they didnt because they are as self serving as the neoliberal philosophy they profess. They stuck around and were a constant thorn in the side for both miliband and corbyn. Now they’re back and the only good thing about it is that the debate will be over once and for all when they are decimated in the next GE and the likes of Jess phillips, wes streeting, hilary Benn etc all get booted out of parliament to go and join the lords and take up a role at whatever weapons manufacturer as a non exec director. Fuck em.

 

[mattiloy]

Dunno if anybody saw this before posted and deleted by Giles Coren about the late, great Dawn Foster.

Miserable little gobshite. Won’t hold my breath for him to get the sack but he should.

[Ozanne]

13 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Dunno if anybody saw this before posted and deleted by Giles Coren about the late, great Dawn Foster.

Miserable little gobshite. Won’t hold my breath for him to get the sack but he should.

I saw that just now, what horrible comments. Why would anyone ever feel the need to comment like that!?

[mattiloy]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I saw that just now, what horrible comments. Why would anyone ever feel the need to comment like that!?

Apparently it was because she had tweeted this once. Hardly worthy of the reaction. 

[eFestivals]

58 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

In the history of centre left parties, Labour included, third way politics is the exception.

Third way politics is dead. It was the dominant ideology in the western world for the best part of two decades and it didn’t deliver. Characterised by rising inequality, sluggish productivity, booming house prices, US imperialist wars, and culminating in a massive global recession as a result of the low regulation, short termism and greed of financial institutions. Sure start simply wasn’t worth it..

Blairites should have conceded the failure of their dogma and left en masse after 2010 but they didnt because they are as self serving as the neoliberal philosophy they profess. They stuck around and were a constant thorn in the side for both miliband and corbyn. Now they’re back and the only good thing about it is that the debate will be over once and for all when they are decimated in the next GE and the likes of Jess phillips, wes streeting, hilary Benn etc all get booted out of parliament to go and join the lords and take up a role at whatever weapons manufacturer as a non exec director. Fuck em.

 

Again, lack of perspective, like third way politics has include the failures, and jezzas way has to include the failures of stalinism, because politics is choices, hard choices, not Xmas on a stick.

Edited July 20, 2021 by eFestivals

[gigpusher]

41 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Dunno if anybody saw this before posted and deleted by Giles Coren about the late, great Dawn Foster.

Miserable little gobshite. Won’t hold my breath for him to get the sack but he should.

I struggle with the fact that him and Victoria are related and he doesn't like dogs so it's obvious he's a wrong un'

[mattiloy]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Again, lack of perspective, like third way politics has include the failures, and jezzas way has to include the failures of stalinism, because politics is choices, hard choices, not Xmas on a stick.

Starmer has sought to shut down debate at every turn, blocked democracy as much as possible, whipped to abstain on the tory’s spy cop bill.

Can think of one or two moustached historical figures would be quite pleased with that kind of carry on.

So go on, in what way was Corbyn like Stalin?

[DeanoL]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

THE PARTY WAS NEVER WHAT THEY IMAGINED IT WAS, AND ITS THEIR IMAGINATION WHICH IS THE PROBLEM, IMAGINING THAT STARMER IS A FASCIST, AND OTHER STUFF WHICH SHOWS THEIR THINKING AS WELL OFF THE MARK!.

BUT PLEASE KEEP GIVING US YOUR MONEY SO WE CAN GET ELECTED AS I SURE AS SHIT AIN'T GOING TO PAY FOR IT

[Ozanne]

[steviewevie]

 

[Ozanne]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Wow, it’s just one poll so far but very encouraging!

[steviewevie]

Anyone watch the Cummings interview?

[fraybentos1]

39 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Wow, it’s just one poll so far but very encouraging!

Literally the same day 🤣🤣🤣 How many times you gonna keep going with this pish

[Ozanne]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Anyone watch the Cummings interview?

Nah, I’ve read up bits on it though. Any good?

[Ryan1984]

They’re gunning for Rashford but he has the jump on them. They know what they’re doing though - stoke up a culture war against the young and successful black guy (after the migrant news today) to deflect from Cummings revealing Spaffer’s true, evil nature.

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

They’re gunning for Rashford but he has the jump on them. They know what they’re doing though - stoke up a culture war against the young and successful black guy (after the migrant news today) to deflect from Cummings revealing Spaffer’s true, evil nature.

James is right, Rashford represents something that scares the likes of The Spectator. 

[mattiloy]

32 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

James is right, Rashford represents something that scares the likes of The Spectator. 

If they really want to take Rashford out they should accuse him of antisemitism.

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Nah, I’ve read up bits on it though. Any good?

Yeh, kind of interesting but not a lot we didn't already know...Cummings is an egomaniac master of chaos and Johnson is useless.