news & politics:discussion

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they did ok on 2017.

With a stop Brexit stance.

[steviewevie]

2 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Corbyn should have reaffirmed his commitment to brexit and never gone for the peoples vote.

The next leader needs to do this and they need to commit to humane immigration control.

They can afford to lose some of the woke city dwellers on this.

But won’t do if they match it with wealth taxes, nationalise rail etc etc.

Thats the winning formula.

 

this again....I thought immigration was not now a problem for a lot of voters...now that free movement of people has gone and there are controls people are on the whole happy with that? It certainly doesn't get on the front page of mail/express/sun anymore. Think that is yesterday's battle. And anyway...most migrants live in the cities with all those woke city dwellers as you call them...so can't we just lie to those living in those white towns and tell them it's ok, we're keeping them all out...don't worry...

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

With a stop Brexit stance.

there was no stop brexit stance in 2017. It was a softer brexit...or jobs first or whatever it was called. It just meant staying in customs union and parts of single market, but it certainly wasn't stop brexit.

[Matt42]

[Zacko]

16 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

A green new deal works if you target specific areas of the country where job losses have occurred and say we will bring the work there.

 

This is exactly it.

Me and my Dad disagree on almost every issue (he's a lifelong Conservative voter), but we always meet on this one whenever we chat politics on the phone. A Green New Deal that gives someone in Cornwall specialised job with good training and a decent salary, with the result being that we also fight climate change? Absolute no brainer isn't it

Edited May 7, 2021 by Zacko

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

yeah...well...I mean...wtf.

But, yeah, not easy for Starmer to get people to notice him during the pandemic...people more interested in what Johnson has to say about lockdown restrictions and vaccines and stuff. And when out and about he can't meet people, shake hands, make speeches etc. So, that will change.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Zacko said:

This is exactly it.

Me and my Dad disagree on almost every issue (he's a lifelong Conservative voter), but we always meet on this one whenever we chat politics on the phone. A Green New Deal that gives someone in Cornwall specialised job with good training and a decent salary, with the result being that we also fight climate change? Absolute no brainer isn't it

it's probably what the tories will do anyway.

[steviewevie]

Not looking great for labour in the mayoral race in Liverpool. Gone to 2nd count. They should be winning this easily.

[BobWillis2]

20 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

A green new deal works if you target specific areas of the country where job losses have occurred and say we will bring the work there.

 

But you would need to dress that up with lots of talk about Great Britain, Britain leading the fight against climate change etc and helping to rebuild forgotten British communities in the process of saving the planet.
Fundamentally the majority of British people are proud to be British and love being given the chance to show that and to feel part of a group that feels the same and means it. 
 

People aren’t going to make the effort to go out and vote just for “lets help save the planet”. 
 

You can do what you like once elected, British people are thick as shit when it comes to politics, you can get away with implementing plenty of left wing and socialist policies once in power as long as you keep banging the British drum. 

 

 

[eFestivals]

35 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

there was no stop brexit stance in 2017. It was a softer brexit...or jobs first or whatever it was called. It just meant staying in customs union and parts of single market, but it certainly wasn't stop brexit.

It was stop Brexit compared to Mays hard brexit

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Not looking great for labour in the mayoral race in Liverpool. Gone to 2nd count. They should be winning this easily.

Polly not helped by Anderson's corruption.

[JoeyT]

 

[st dan]

36 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Not looking great for labour in the mayoral race in Liverpool. Gone to 2nd count. They should be winning this easily.

Don’t think Rotherham being one of Boris and the Tories chief arse-lickers throughout the pandemic has helped.  

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

 

not happening then...probably still a pro-indy majority...but don't think an independence referendum happening anytime soon.

[Ommadawn]

I rarely post on here any more but as someone who until fairly recently had always voted Labour, I feel that the Labour party needs to move to the centre left (similar to Tony Blair's governments) if they ever want my vote in the future . At least that would make them more likely to be elected after which they could start persuing policies more likely to appeal to people like me and maybe build enough confidence so that I can starting voting for the party again.  
I also hope there isn't a leadship challange. As someone who pointed out Corbyn's baggage long before it was fashionable to do so on here, I think Sir Keir has been dealt a poor hand. He can't really lay into the Government for fear of being accused of not supporting them in a time of crisis and if he doesn't he's slagged off by the left wing of the party for not doing so ( I suspect there will be plenty of opportunities during any inquiry on how the Government handled the pandemic). I don't think he's particulary good Prime Minister material, but he is electable backed by the right policies and with the whole party behind him.

[Ommadawn]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

I'm starting to wonder if Labour were actually on a downward trajectory from Milliband onwards, and this is just the tail end of that? Corbyn's 2017 performance was just a disruptive peak born of May's shocking ineptitude and Corbyn's radical ideas getting young people a bit fired up before the press had time to give people reasons not to vote for him. If you remove that from the picture it's a pretty steady decline into the bin.

Definitely should have elected his brother imo.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Ommadawn

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

I rarely post on here any more but as someone who until fairly recently had always voted Labour, I feel that the Labour party needs to move to the centre left (similar to Tony Blair's governments) if they ever want my vote in the future . At least that would make them more likely to be elected after which they could start persuing policies more likely to appeal to people like me and maybe build enough confidence so that I can starting voting for the party again.  
I also hope there isn't a leadship challange. As someone who pointed out Corbyn's baggage long before it was fashionable to do so on here, I think Sir Keir has been dealt a poor hand. He can't really lay into the Government for fear of being accused of not supporting them in a time of crisis and if he doesn't he's slagged off by the left wing of the party for not doing so ( I suspect there will be plenty of opportunities during any inquiry on how the Government handled the pandemic). I don't think he's particulary good Prime Minister material, but he is electable backed by the right policies and with the whole party behind him.

see this is it....many think he needs to move to the centre, and then many think he needs to move to the left....but as others have said...maybe he just needs to get better at selling a labour vision...and also managing stuff...like who stands in places like Hartlepool and when you hold a byelection there. But...it's not just Hartlepool, it's happening all over the shop...and a lot of that is probably down to vaccines and lockdown ending.

[steviewevie]

With SNP looking like they're not getting that majority, and all the other results coming in across England...it's been a very good set of elections for the tories and Johnson. He's definitely safe now. Where's that tenner ZMG?

[Mimo]

Despite all of the doom and gloom this is by no means a normal election given the madness of the last 5 years. Writing Labour off forever is a bit extreme really. Assuming some degree of normality returns in the next couple of years the next election could be very different indeed. Of course we might be at war with France by then, so who knows. 

[Ozanne]

39 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

I rarely post on here any more but as someone who until fairly recently had always voted Labour, I feel that the Labour party needs to move to the centre left (similar to Tony Blair's governments) if they ever want my vote in the future . At least that would make them more likely to be elected after which they could start persuing policies more likely to appeal to people like me and maybe build enough confidence so that I can starting voting for the party again.  
I also hope there isn't a leadship challange. As someone who pointed out Corbyn's baggage long before it was fashionable to do so on here, I think Sir Keir has been dealt a poor hand. He can't really lay into the Government for fear of being accused of not supporting them in a time of crisis and if he doesn't he's slagged off by the left wing of the party for not doing so ( I suspect there will be plenty of opportunities during any inquiry on how the Government handled the pandemic). I don't think he's particulary good Prime Minister material, but he is electable backed by the right policies and with the whole party behind him.

Some really good points made here, especially about Starmer being damned either way. The pandemic meant as you say he couldn't really win either way although polls show at first he made ground and they narrowed over last weekend. He will have his chance to sell his vision and maybe this will give him the kick top the ass he needs.

[Ayrshire Chris]

Politics in Scotland is crazy now.  The snp supporters mostly vote solely on getting independence irrespective of their dismal record on education, drug deaths health etc.  Meanwhile the unionist voters are still split on the traditional left right and centre parties  . I reckon the snp may be concerned that the pro independence vote is still not above 50%. Sturgeon won’t be keen on a quick referendum if she cant be sure of winning it. It will be the last throw of the dice for her. She will be first minister but hopefully won’t be too quick to call another divisive referendum especially during the recovery from the pandemic. 

[eFestivals]

23 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Starmer saying Labour needs to focus on workers ....

Didn't sound convinced 

If workers wanted Labour they'd vote Labour. As the saying goes people get the govt they want.

Pleased to see that starmer dropped the Hartlepool vote by similar to what Corbyn did twice the firrst time he dropped the vote by about 24% he called that a victory.

[Ozanne]

 

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Politics in Scotland is crazy now.  The snp supporters mostly vote solely on getting independence irrespective of their dismal record on education, drug deaths health etc.  Meanwhile the unionist voters are still split on the traditional left right and centre parties  . I reckon the snp may be concerned that the pro independence vote is still not above 50%. Sturgeon won’t be keen on a quick referendum if she cant be sure of winning it. It will be the last throw of the dice for her. She will be first minister but hopefully won’t be too quick to call another divisive referendum especially during the recovery from the pandemic. 

SNP voters ingnore that they give the Tories a run for their money refusing to block evictions.

[Zoo Music Girl]

31 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

With SNP looking like they're not getting that majority, and all the other results coming in across England...it's been a very good set of elections for the tories and Johnson. He's definitely safe now. Where's that tenner ZMG?

Summer recess I said!