news & politics:discussion

[Matt42]

6 minutes ago, BobWillis2 said:

“we’ve already killed the Labour Party.  Let us kill it some more” 

The Labour Party needs to split. Even in association with momentum is enough to give voters the ick.

Any Labour leader which lets them in is going to be tarred with the same brush as corbyn. They are toxic. They are rotting fruit that need to be chucked out or put somewhere else. As long as they are in the party people won’t vote for Labour.

[Mimo]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

I'm not oblivious to the fact it's out there I was very surprised about ten years ago in a car repair place in Bristol at some of the language the owner used I never went back. Not what I expected in bristrol

I think sadly that it’s a lot more prevalent than we realise. For years racism was seen as on the retreat, but I believe that all this time it’s been festering away behind closed doors. I’ve certainly seen it in parts my family. Worried that it’s going to become increasingly overt over the coming years as the Tories continue their culture war.

On a side note, and I hope that I’m just being paranoid, but I expect Glastonbury to get dragged into the culture war sooner or later. The attack line will be something along the lines of not representing The British People because all left wing views are now frowned upon. The tabloids will pile on. They’ll stop the BBC coverage in an attempt to kneecap it.

[Ozanne]

 

 

[eFestivals]

Not abouttvracism but did anyone see the Ian wright thing on TV last night fantastic powerful TV we need more of that sort of stuff.

Edited May 7, 2021 by eFestivals

[Ozanne]

Maybe I'm clutching at straws but could a Labour defeat in Hartlepool actually in time be a good thing as it could trigger the Labour leadership into looking at offering something radical which would them in a better position come the next GE?

[Ryan1984]

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Maybe I'm clutching at straws but could a Labour defeat in Hartlepool actually in time be a good thing as it could trigger the Labour leadership into looking at offering something radical which would them in a better position come the next GE?

Starmer is leader cos he's the best Labour have to offer a change of leader would mean going round the same thing again with someone worse as leader.

[Ryan1984]

28 minutes ago, Mimo said:

I think sadly that it’s a lot more prevalent than we realise. For years racism was seen as on the retreat, but I believe that all this time it’s been festering away behind closed doors. I’ve certainly seen it in parts my family. Worried that it’s going to become increasingly overt over the coming years as the Tories continue their culture war.

On a side note, and I hope that I’m just being paranoid, but I expect Glastonbury to get dragged into the culture war sooner or later. The attack line will be something along the lines of not representing The British People because all left wing views are now frowned upon. The tabloids will pile on. They’ll stop the BBC coverage in an attempt to kneecap it.

The Right wing enthusiasts on my local football team’s forum have already started. It apparently used to be a “fun family weekend with loads of good music but now it’s full of rappers like Stormy constantly swearing and unacceptably and unfairly insulting our prime minister”.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Starmer is leader cos he's the best Labour have to offer a change of leader would mean going round the same thing again with someone worse as leader.

I don't mean a change in leader, I mean offering something radical policy-wise.

[BobWillis2]

12 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I don't mean a change in leader, I mean offering something radical policy-wise.

Just having an actual policy would be pretty radical for Starmer. 

[fraybentos1]

34 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

 

😂😂😂 come on man, give it up 

[Gingerfish79]

26 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I don't mean a change in leader, I mean offering something radical policy-wise.

In my view, Labours problem isn't about their policies. If elections were run like a 'blind taste-test' the results would be very close and I would bet that Labour would win far more than they would lose. But British politics isn't really about policy, its about presentation and convincing enough people that you're more trustworthy than the other side - or convincing people that you're less likely to cock it up. Labour lost that battle at the start of the 80's with only TB able to reverse the pattern and he did it by first bringing his own party together. Labour is a coalition and its not easy to find common ground, but my biggest concern moving forward is that nobody in Labour right now is even remotely interested in listening to the other side of the party, much less trying to bring it together.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Gingerfish79

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

In my view, Labours problem isn't about their policies. If elections were run like a 'blind taste-test' the results would be very close and I would bet that Labour would win far more than they would lose. But British politics isn't really about policy, its about presentation and convincing enough people that you're more trustworthy than the other side - or convincing people that you're less likely to cock it up.

I think you nail it with those last few lines which is why corbyns return to the 70,s would never sell.

2 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

 

 

Labour lost that battle at the start of the 80's with only TB able to reverse the pattern and he did it by first bringing his own party together. Labour is a coalition and its not easy to find common ground, but my biggest concern moving forward is that nobody in Labour right now is even remotely interested in listening to the other site of the party, much less trying to bring it together.

 

[steviewevie]

2 hours ago, Matt42 said:

If British culture has a race problem it has to admit that the empire was very flawed. It has to admit that British culture was founded on these principles.

They aren’t ready to do it. They may never be ready. British people would rather deny their behaviour may be racist than move on. A party that talks about Britain being racist will never go down well.

labour doesnt' talk about it...the fucking tories keep bringing it up.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, Mimo said:

On a side note, and I hope that I’m just being paranoid, but I expect Glastonbury to get dragged into the culture war sooner or later. The attack line will be something along the lines of not representing The British People because all left wing views are now frowned upon. The tabloids will pile on. They’ll stop the BBC coverage in an attempt to kneecap it.

Nah, Glastonbury is still 98% white. It's less diverse than the UK population. And the UK population is strikingly lacking in diversity. It's easy to forget if you live in a city but as of last census (2011) 80 per cent of the UK population were white British. Asian (Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi, other) ‘groups’ made up 6.8 per cent of the population; black groups 3.4 per cent; Chinese groups 0.7 per cent, Arab groups 0.4 per cent and other groups 0.6 per cent

[steviewevie]

2 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Corbyn should have reaffirmed his commitment to brexit and never gone for the peoples vote.

The next leader needs to do this and they need to commit to humane immigration control.

They can afford to lose some of the woke city dwellers on this.

But won’t do if they match it with wealth taxes, nationalise rail etc etc.

Thats the winning formula.

Blue labour.

[DeanoL]

I'm starting to wonder if Labour were actually on a downward trajectory from Milliband onwards, and this is just the tail end of that? Corbyn's 2017 performance was just a disruptive peak born of May's shocking ineptitude and Corbyn's radical ideas getting young people a bit fired up before the press had time to give people reasons not to vote for him. If you remove that from the picture it's a pretty steady decline into the bin.

[steviewevie]

2 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Corbyn should have reaffirmed his commitment to brexit and never gone for the peoples vote.

it was all those pesky new labour members that joined to vote him in that pushed for the peoples vote.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it was all those pesky new labour members that joined to vote him in that pushed for the peoples vote.

No Labour voters who didn't want Brexit. Labour would have done worse if it hadn't stood to try and stop Brexit.

[steviewevie]

If you look at what Starmer has been saying and his pledges and polices etc he still to the left of Ed Milliband, but the perception is he is centrist because of the way he and Corbyn handled the EHRC antisemitism report and the fallout from that. Ever since the left have got him down as a blair centrist and hate him. He is still on the left, and there will be calls for him to go more to the right now.

It's a bit like people thinking Johnson is more right wing than Cameron, when he really isn't.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No Labour voters who didn't want Brexit. Labour would have done worse if it hadn't stood to try and stop Brexit.

they did ok on 2017.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I'm starting to wonder if Labour were actually on a downward trajectory from Milliband onwards, and this is just the tail end of that? Corbyn's 2017 performance was just a disruptive peak born of May's shocking ineptitude and Corbyn's radical ideas getting young people a bit fired up before the press had time to give people reasons not to vote for him. If you remove that from the picture it's a pretty steady decline into the bin.

does seem that way. Infact they've been losing support from Blair's 2nd term onwards really.

[steviewevie]

55 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I don't mean a change in leader, I mean offering something radical policy-wise.

yeah, green new deal. They need to push that...and then 6 months before gen election come out with super cool radical manifesto like ban cars and make veganism mandatory or something.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, green new deal. They need to push that...and then 6 months before gen election come out with super cool radical manifesto like ban cars and make veganism mandatory or something.

Green New Deal, Renationalising public services and Voting reform.

[Matt42]

12 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, green new deal. They need to push that...and then 6 months before gen election come out with super cool radical manifesto like ban cars and make veganism mandatory or something.

A green new deal works if you target specific areas of the country where job losses have occurred and say we will bring the work there.