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7 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

I’m sorry Matt but why does everything have to be so sensationalist with you?

No Labour aren’t done. They’re polling a bit behind the tories and it’s a 2 party system- they’ll be back in power again unfortunately it probs won’t be 2024.

I really think Labour are done mate they’ve been on a trajectory of just losing constituencies rather than gaining any for a while now.

How can you say they will be back in power when they’ve lost Scotland, Wales, the red wall, and now even some of their constituencies outside of London?

They’ve lost their vote base.

Edited by Matt42
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Just now, JoeyT said:

 

Exactly. There needs to be a very difficult discussion within Labour that they are still avoiding. Because their recent strategy has completely cost them their leave voters. 

The tories are capitalising off this too as they offered a safe haven for leave voters disgruntled with Labours choices.

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1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

This..  was my point yesterday..

My exchange yesterday with the champagne socialise fron St Ives proves this.

But Labour would win if they just believed our academic arguments more about why their opinions are inherently wrong.

Edited by Matt42
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Talk of PR keeping the Tories out seems off the mark at the moment. Forget Labour this and Labour that, how is it that the country is turning increasingly Tory despite everything? Very worrying. 

Edited by Mimo
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Will Brexit still be such a massive issue at the election? It’s hard to tell. The political landscape has been so affected by covid that Labour have no coherent policy platform to stand on at the moment. This is going to change as the pandemic subsides.  It’s not all doom and gloom, but it does feel fucking grim. 

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6 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Exactly. There needs to be a very difficult discussion within Labour that they are still avoiding. Because their recent strategy has completely cost them their leave voters. 

The tories are capitalising off this too as they offered a safe haven for leave voters disgruntled with Labours choices.

Are they avoiding that discussion though? If we are talking about Brexit then Labour listened as they backed the  Brexit trade deal. It seems in this seat anyway that the pandemic hasn’t been a driver in the election but I don’t think that’ll be the case everywhere, we have to hope that in the next couple of years when voters see that the Tories aren’t on their side that they decide that Labour is the party for them.

Obviously this is a horrible result but I think this is also the Johnson effect and his ability to win in places that the Tories don’t traditionally tend to win in.

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9 minutes ago, Mimo said:

Talk of PR keeping the Tories out seems off the mark at the moment. Forget Labour this and Labour that, how is it that the country is turning increasingly Tory despite everything? Very worrying. 

 

8 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Will Brexit still be such a massive issue at the election? It’s hard to tell. The political landscape has been so affected by covid that Labour have no coherent policy platform to stand on at the moment. This is going to change as the pandemic subsides.  It’s not all doom and gloom, but it does feel fucking grim. 

Oh absolutely because most of the country thinks the tories have done a fantastic job.

Labour underestimate that the majority of the country is quite socially conservative. The generation warned never to vote Tory by their parents is now finding a new home that encourages their socially conservative views.

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1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Are they avoiding that discussion though? If we are talking about Brexit then Labour listened as they backed the  Brexit trade deal. It seems in this seat anyway that the pandemic hasn’t been a driver in the election but I don’t think that’ll be the case everywhere, we have to hope that in the next couple of years when voters see that the Tories aren’t on their side that they decide that Labour is the party for them.

Obviously this is a horrible result but I think this is also the Johnson effect and his ability to win in places that the Tories don’t traditionally tend to win in.

I think this is too complicated and the real reason is simple. It’s so simple that it’s actually pretty disastrous for Labour. Ex-Labour voters don’t identify with the Labour Party anymore and they identify more with the Conservative party.

Britain is more socially conservative than Labour wants to admit, and labours vision of fairness and equality doesn’t appeal.

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11 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Will Brexit still be such a massive issue at the election? It’s hard to tell. The political landscape has been so affected by covid that Labour have no coherent policy platform to stand on at the moment. This is going to change as the pandemic subsides.  It’s not all doom and gloom, but it does feel fucking grim. 

Exactly, things are bad now but over the next 2 years when the pandemic ends and there are difficult economic choices for the government then we’ll see if they are able to keep this support especially as Brexit will be a thing done years before. You are right it does feel grim but there are ways back for Labour. 

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On 3/30/2021 at 1:19 PM, mattiloy said:


A poor workman blames his tools..

 

Honestly its desperate stuff, the bottomless well of excuses for the electable one. 

Actually can’t wait til Starmer replaces even the soft left shadow cabinet members with a bunch of right wing electable ghouls, gets about 15% of the vote in 2024 and somehow they are still saying ’But Jeremy Corbyn!!!!!!..’

 

😂😂😂😂

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14 minutes ago, Mimo said:

Talk of PR keeping the Tories out seems off the mark at the moment. Forget Labour this and Labour that, how is it that the country is turning increasingly Tory despite everything? Very worrying. 

I really thought their willingness to starve kids in the middle of a pandemic - until a footballer got involved - would have made some kind of impact. Nothing touches Johnson.

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1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Exactly, things are bad now but over the next 2 years when the pandemic ends and there are difficult economic choices for the government then we’ll see if they are able to keep this support especially as Brexit will be a thing done years before. You are right it does feel grim but there are ways back for Labour. 

But the overwhelming response here is that most people trust that the tories are doing the right thing? In 2 years time the “working class” portion of the Tory base will trust the governments decisions.

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6 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Will Brexit still be such a massive issue at the election? It’s hard to tell. The political landscape has been so affected by covid that Labour have no coherent policy platform to stand on at the moment. This is going to change as the pandemic subsides.  It’s not all doom and gloom, but it does feel fucking grim. 

Whilst Brexit is one of the causes of this it isn't about Brexit as a live issue now. It's about being ignored, a large number of these red wall voters aren't particularly engaged in politics, they voted Labour because that's what they were brought up with, the Tories had decimated the local industries and so that's just how you voted, but we had a decade of Labour power and they still felt left behind, the Tories got back in and they were still being ignored, then came Brexit. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it they chose Brexit and they beat the system and they watched as the Labour party, supposedly their party did everything in its power to get in the way. The one time they won, they were still being ignored, after that they just aren't tribally Labour anymore.

That's not to say they can't be won back but it requires something new we talk about voters in swing seats being the only ones that matter, and most of the time they do hold the balance of power but it's when those supporters who unthinkingly just vote for a party by default change their minds is when you get real political change.

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1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

I think this is too complicated and the real reason is simple. It’s so simple that it’s actually pretty disastrous for Labour. Ex-Labour voters don’t identify with the Labour Party anymore and they identify more with the Conservative party.

Britain is more socially conservative than Labour wants to admit, and labours vision of fairness and equality doesn’t appeal.

Yeah they do at the moment and I feel that’s mainly due to the Boris Johnson effect and how he appears to be the every man. He’s a very unique politician where nothing seems to touch him and he has built this persona which makes people believe he’s one of them. Which is fair enough, it works but when the Tories have someone else that doesn’t have that persona will those voters feel the same way, I’m not so sure. 

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Just now, Ryan1984 said:

I really thought their willingness to starve kids in the middle of a pandemic - until a footballer got involved - would have made some kind of impact. Nothing touches Johnson.

Because it’s only the London Twitter Labour left that actually care. Johnson continues the selfish vision of Britain pushed by thatcher and that’s more appealing. The ordinary voter doesn’t care about issues like this.

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1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah they do at the moment and I feel that’s mainly due to the Boris Johnson effect and how he appears to be the every man. He’s a very unique politician where nothing seems to touch him and he has built this persona which makes people believe he’s one of them. Which is fair enough, it works but when the Tories have someone else that doesn’t have that persona will those voters feel the same way, I’m not so sure. 

I genuinely think if Rishi replaced Johnson we wouldn’t see any change. People who like Johnson like Rishi in a similar way

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4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I genuinely think if Rishi replaced Johnson we wouldn’t see any change. People who like Johnson like Rishi in a similar way

I just read a tweet saying how they always nail the ‘aspirational’ edge of the Right - vote for us and you can be like (and as rich as) us etc. Unfortunately, so many fall for it. Add in some culture war bait and it’s a winning combination.

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To me this is the government being rewarded for a the best vaccine rollout of any major country in the world. It’s more an endorsement of what the Tories are doing than a rejection of Starmer.

 

The scary part is I’m not really sure it’s within Labour’s power to make the government unpopular. They just need to bide their time and hope Johnson makes a few gaffes. 

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