news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Nothing changes !!!

except Hartlepool.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

Well I hate the country so explains why I (wrongly, stupidly, regrettably) voted Labour last time. 

Cheering on France right now obviously...

yeah, might go and fight for them.

[Matt42]

4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Nothing will ever change in this country- an illusion of democracy  

The reason I prefer American politics. It’s a fight. No one can say with certainty who is going to win.

in the UK people vote for one party for the rest of their lives and hand their votes down to their children. Change (if it happens) is every generation - not every election!

We won’t see a shift in politics until the religiously faithful old tories pass away.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Matt42

[steviewevie]

expect there will be an almighty battle from right and left of labour in which direction labour should go and who should be in cabinet after the inevitable reshuffle.

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, might go and fight for them.

The police vessels being sent to monitor the situation while we send the Navy in did give me a proper laugh

[steviewevie]

Just now, Matt42 said:

The reason I prefer American politics. It’s a fight. No one can say with certainty who is going to win.

in the UK people vote for one party for the rest of their lives and hand their votes down to their children. Change (if it happens) is every generation - not every election!

We won’t see a shift in politics until the religiously faithful old tories pass away.

seems to be pretty similar here to it is in america...certain areas always vote for a particular party...but that is changing (working class voting right wing parties more)...and you also get a bunch of swing voters.

I prefer the sexy european model.

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

seems to be pretty similar here to it is in america...certain areas always vote for a particular party...but that is changing (working class voting right wing parties more)...and you also get a bunch of swing voters.

I prefer the sexy european model.

I strongly disagree. Look at the history of US elections. Very rarely does a party win by a landslide. The actual voting percentages for some states are by a knife edge. It’s deceptive if you only look at the electoral college.

Every vote matters in the US. Especially in swing states where it comes down to a fraction percentage. This election should be a prime example of that. Winning Georgia was a huge success for the democrats but they didn’t win it by much!

[efcfanwirral]

13 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

The reason I prefer American politics. It’s a fight. No one can say with certainty who is going to win.

in the UK people vote for one party for the rest of their lives and hand their votes down to their children. Change (if it happens) is every generation - not every election!

We won’t see a shift in politics until the religiously faithful old tories pass away.

To be honest my most pressing concern is when/if the current government intend to return their emergency powers to launder money. realistically they'll be extended again to cover winter, by then it'll be 2 years since real decisions were made in Parliament. That's concerning 

Edited May 6, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I strongly disagree. Look at the history of US elections. Very rarely does a party win by a landslide. The actual voting percentages for some states are by a knife edge. It’s deceptive if you only look at the electoral college.

Every vote matters in the US. Especially in swing states where it comes down to a fraction percentage. This election should be a prime example of that. Winning Georgia was a huge success for the democrats but they didn’t win it by much!

yeah, ok it is close....true....but it always just comes to 4 or 5 swing states. Must feel pointless voting republican in california or democrat in w virginia.

[mattiloy]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I strongly disagree. Look at the history of US elections. Very rarely does a party win by a landslide. The actual voting percentages for some states are by a knife edge. It’s deceptive if you only look at the electoral college.

Every vote matters in the US. Especially in swing states where it comes down to a fraction percentage. This election should be a prime example of that. Winning Georgia was a huge success for the democrats but they didn’t win it by much!

Every vote matters in about 10 states - about 1/5th of the constituencies. Same as in the uk.

The swing between a historic low seat count in 2019 and a historic high for labour in 1997 was about... 1/5th of seats.

Both systems are shit. Most votes don’t matter. It isn’t democracy. Stop fanboying over all things american, this isn’t the 90s, nobody likes america anymore.

[Zoo Music Girl]

28 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

The reason I prefer American politics. It’s a fight. No one can say with certainty who is going to win.

in the UK people vote for one party for the rest of their lives and hand their votes down to their children. Change (if it happens) is every generation - not every election!

We won’t see a shift in politics until the religiously faithful old tories pass away.

I certainly don't vote the same way as my parents! Fuck that.

[Ryan1984]

 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Just back from the polling booth. Voted tory because Starmer isn't left wing enough.

The sort of thing I was highlighting yesterday which you took exception to.

[maelzoid]

American politics is fucked up. The whole system is massively skewed towards the Republican party. Clinton won the popular vote by millions in 2016, and still Trump got in.

If you look at the Senate, the amount of votes needed per seat is wildly uneven and again favours the republicans. in 2018, the democrats won 58% of the vote, but came away with 45 seats to the Republicans' 53.

I do enjoy the visceral thrill of it, because it feels that the two sides are so wide in terms of policy and temperament, but I would never look to it as a successful implementation of the ideals of democracy.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The sort of thing I was highlighting yesterday which you took exception to.

I was joking.

[steviewevie]

16 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I certainly don't vote the same way as my parents! Fuck that.

Heh heh...yeah me too. My mum is ok...she's a lib dem type of person...occasionally votes labour. But, my dad...good grief. I think he was labour in the 70s...then fell for the Reagan/Thatcher thing (he lived in US the migrant scum)...and has headed more to the racist right ever since..and now I have little respect for him which is kind of sad. He was actually on that list of BMP members that got leaked to the press a number of years ago...had to change his number and go ex-directory.

[SwedgeAntilles]

40 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I strongly disagree. Look at the history of US elections. Very rarely does a party win by a landslide. The actual voting percentages for some states are by a knife edge. It’s deceptive if you only look at the electoral college.

Every vote matters in the US. Especially in swing states where it comes down to a fraction percentage. This election should be a prime example of that. Winning Georgia was a huge success for the democrats but they didn’t win it by much!

That's because there's a gnat's whisker between the two parties ideologically speaking.

[fraybentos1]

49 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I strongly disagree. Look at the history of US elections. Very rarely does a party win by a landslide. The actual voting percentages for some states are by a knife edge. It’s deceptive if you only look at the electoral college.

Every vote matters in the US. Especially in swing states where it comes down to a fraction percentage. This election should be a prime example of that. Winning Georgia was a huge success for the democrats but they didn’t win it by much!

Actually only the votes in a handful of swing states actually matter. 

There is nothing about US politics we should be looking to emulate here.

[Ozanne]

11 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

That's because there's a gnat's whisker between the two parties ideologically speaking.

To be fair to Biden he’s doing some pretty decent things so far such as the waiving of patents for COVID vaccines. 

[SwedgeAntilles]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

To be fair to Biden he’s doing some pretty decent things so far such as the waiving of patents for COVID vaccines. 

Absolutely, but I'd argue that this is just a realignment based on how much Trump pushed things in the other direction. Trump's presidency was an outlier given it was hijacked by the far-right. Matt's talking about historic American elections and I'd argue that Biden is just shifting the needle back to the sweet spot where the likes of him, Obama, the Clintons and the Bushes were all happy to operate in.

[eFestivals]

41 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I was joking.

The Tories still in power is no joke or you helping them by putting words out there which weaken the alternative.

[Zacko]

Just took a stroll up to the Polling Station with a mate as we happened to be leaving at the same time - nice little unexpected trip out tbf.

Don't think I've ever been on the winning side of an election ever since I've been eligible to vote (2010), but I still get a bit of a buzz out of it. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

52 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Heh heh...yeah me too. My mum is ok...she's a lib dem type of person...occasionally votes labour. But, my dad...good grief. I think he was labour in the 70s...then fell for the Reagan/Thatcher thing (he lived in US the migrant scum)...and has headed more to the racist right ever since..and now I have little respect for him which is kind of sad. He was actually on that list of BMP members that got leaked to the press a number of years ago...had to change his number and go ex-directory.

Ugh my sympathies. My mum has voted Lib Dem before and they both voted for Blair I think, but they are pretty much Tory. My dad has voted UKIP and BNP in the past too. Grim.

[maelzoid]

54 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

That's because there's a gnat's whisker between the two parties ideologically speaking.

I don't think this statement could be more wide of the mark.

[mattiloy]

16 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The Tories still in power is no joke or you helping them by putting words out there which weaken the alternative.

Alexa, show me an example of hypocrisy.