news & politics:discussion

[zahidf]

12 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

True enough but what can you do? There isn’t any vetting for joining the Labour party. Corbyn inherited a complaints process which apparently was fine for the previous however many years, implemented a new complaints process, after being obstructed in doing so by Iain McNichol, which is still unchanged by Starmer so appears to be acceptable. He condemned it everytime he was asked in the media. Still, he is smeared at antisemitic. Its extremely unfair.

Agree with some of what you wrote but this I have to disagree with and in essence sums up my beef, and probably Corbyn’s beef with the antisemitism lobby - we cannot allow ourselves to get into the position of protecting for example the banking industry from greater taxation or for example not using consumer power (the only tool we have left) to affect change in Israel through boycott divest & sanctions through fear of being branded antisemitic. (Incidentally human rights watch confirmed what we all know that Israel is committing apartheit in the eyes of international law).

This is the ’weaponisation’ of antisemitism in a nutshell- to maintain a political status quo rather than anything to do with actual racism. Its also damaging to the seriousness with which real antisemitism is afforded.

Jez still hasnt properly explained liking that anti-semitic mural.

I dont think hes conciously anti semitic, but because he doesnt see Jewish people as an opressed minority, they are lower on his priority list for protection 

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

True enough but what can you do? There isn’t any vetting for joining the Labour party. Corbyn inherited a complaints process which apparently was fine for the previous however many years, implemented a new complaints process, after being obstructed in doing so by Iain McNichol, which is still unchanged by Starmer so appears to be acceptable. He condemned it everytime he was asked in the media. Still, he is smeared at antisemitic. Its extremely unfair.

He is mostly 'smeared' for doing a shit job as leader about all of that how many times did he promise he was sorting it for all of the same problems to come round again

8 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Agree with some of what you wrote but this I have to disagree with and in essence sums up my beef, and probably Corbyn’s beef with the antisemitism lobby - we cannot allow ourselves to get into the position of protecting for example the banking industry from greater taxation or for example not using consumer power (the only tool we have left) to affect change in Israel through boycott divest & sanctions through fear of being branded antisemitic. (Incidentally human rights watch confirmed what we all know that Israel is committing apartheit in the eyes of international law).

This is the ’weaponisation’ of antisemitism in a nutshell- to maintain a political status quo rather than anything to do with actual racism. Its also damaging to the seriousness with which real antisemitism is afforded.

It's denying Israel the opportunity to deal with very real issues they suffer.if you neighbour was chucking dogshit over your fence you'd want to do whatever you could to make it stop.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, JoeyT said:

PMQs will be an excellent watch today

 

Boris 'i cannot comment until the investigation is concluded'

[zahidf]

Just now, eFestivals said:

He is mostly 'smeared' for doing a shit job as leader about all of that how many times did he promise he was sorting it for all of the same problems to come round again

It's denying Israel the opportunity to deal with very real issues they suffer.if you neighbour was chucking dogshit over your fence you'd want to do whatever you could to make it stop.

Well i probably wouldnt kill their kids to stop them

[eFestivals]

Just now, zahidf said:

Jez still hasnt properly explained liking that anti-semitic mural.

For someone so rated for his stands against racism what's amazing was his inability to recognise the tropes in the mural.

Just now, zahidf said:

I dont think hes conciously anti semitic, but because he doesnt see Jewish people as an opressed minority, they are lower on his priority list for protection 

His approach is that the enemy of his friends is also his enemy. It's a very unthinking approach to anything.

[Simsy]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

Listened - whilst I have sympathy for those on the receiving end of genuine antisemitism, and having admittedly not read the book, from what I can grasp of the thrust - that antisemitism is not afforded equal status by the left to other forms of racism - I’m not sure I entirely agree. The amount of attention it receives compared to islamophobia or say anti-polish sentiment is huge, despite these being a much larger problem in the population (as a share of the number of hate crimes reported to police).

Also he seems to be fixated on that stereotypes of Jews seem to be acceptable whilst not of other groups. Its simply not true, be it drunk irishmen, dour Scots, sheep shagging welsh, lily-livered french, or racist white van man Englander, ’acceptable’ stereotypes are the norm.

The unfortunate fall out from the exaggeration of antisemitism being a problem in the labour party is now hypersensitivity towards it in the way that there seems to be to everything these days. I have seen Baddiel tweet about non Jewish actors depicting stereotypical Jewish characters as problematic. This is Baddiel depicting Jason Lee in a comedy sketch.

I get why you’d have a bias when you are prominent on social media and as a result you get hounded by racist trolls all day but I think its a very myopic perspective that he has if he’s saying that antisemitism has a lesser platform than other forms of racism.

Off topic, and I know my one woman campaign of shouting into the void that is the internet isn't going to make much difference, but I'd appreciate it if people didn't use "myopic" as an insult (unless you're talking about my eyesight, in which case it is shit, insult away).

Go ahead and use "short-sighted", rather than using technical medical terms as shorthand for negative personality traits. You wouldn't say that someone big headed had macrocephaly. And sp*stic stopped being a diagnosis when everyone started using it as an insult. But people are happy to use "myopic".

That is all, now we can get back to arguing over who's shitter out of Corbyn and Starmer.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Well i probably wouldnt kill their kids to stop them

You'd want to kill the dogs to cut off the supply of dogshit.

[DeanoL]

15 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Agree with some of what you wrote but this I have to disagree with and in essence sums up my beef, and probably Corbyn’s beef with the antisemitism lobby - we cannot allow ourselves to get into the position of protecting for example the banking industry from greater taxation or for example not using consumer power (the only tool we have left) to affect change in Israel through boycott divest & sanctions through fear of being branded antisemitic.

I agree with that, but the counterpoint is that you avoid getting into that position by aggressively stamping out any anti-semitism you do see, including the leader doing something stupid like linking that mural, because when you do put greater taxes on the banking industry there needs to be no doubt at all as to the reasons your doing it.

(The Israel question is another thing entirely, and did come up. My last post wasn't made up, I actually tried where I could to ask Jewish people at the last election, okay, so Labour has an antisemtism problem, what does that mean to you, and some of the answers often did come down to: Israel. And while I'm very much on your side on the Israel/Palestine thing, I also felt that they had a point in that, regardless of what side you're on, dealing with problem required balance and finesse, and that having someone like Corbyn, so clearly and utterly in support of one side, wouldn't have been helpful either)

[DeanoL]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You'd want to kill the dogs to cut off the supply of dogshit.

Yeah, but would you?

[mattiloy]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I agree with what you say about anisemitism getting treated differently.wht goes on at spurs wouldn't be tolerated if it was swapped from'yids' to something else.

False equivalence, yid isn’t the same strength of slur. It certainly wouldn’t be tolerated if it were k***.

 

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

they just want him to shut up about anti semitism.

On casting of jewish roles, he makes the point that nowadays, you cant get away with casting non-black people for black roles for example, but you can for jewish roles ( and very stereotyped jewish roles as well)

Has nothing to do with wanting him to shut up. I would gladly argue the toss with him. Just people should know going in that he is a hypocrit.

On the latter point - that is RIDICULOUS. I refer you to every film set in Ireland, groundskeeper wullie from the simpsons etc etc... woke has overreached.

5 minutes ago, Simsy said:

Off topic, and I know my one woman campaign of shouting into the void that is the internet isn't going to make much difference, but I'd appreciate it if people didn't use "myopic" as an insult (unless you're talking about my eyesight, in which case it is shit, insult away).

Go ahead and use "short-sighted", rather than using technical medical terms as shorthand for negative personality traits. You wouldn't say that someone big headed had macrocephaly. And sp*stic stopped being a diagnosis when everyone started using it as an insult. But people are happy to use "myopic".

That is all, now we can get back to arguing over who's shitter out of Corbyn and Starmer.

No. Having macrocephaly or being disabled is not the same as being short sighted. Probs most people develop short sightedness in their life. Certainly now with the screen time we all enjoy.

[mattiloy]

10 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I agree with that, but the counterpoint is that you avoid getting into that position by aggressively stamping out any anti-semitism you do see, including the leader doing something stupid like linking that mural, because when you do put greater taxes on the banking industry there needs to be no doubt at all as to the reasons your doing it.

(The Israel question is another thing entirely, and did come up. My last post wasn't made up, I actually tried where I could to ask Jewish people at the last election, okay, so Labour has an antisemtism problem, what does that mean to you, and some of the answers often did come down to: Israel. And while I'm very much on your side on the Israel/Palestine thing, I also felt that they had a point in that, regardless of what side you're on, dealing with problem required balance and finesse, and that having someone like Corbyn, so clearly and utterly in support of one side, wouldn't have been helpful either)

Fair comment. But then this really comes down to how to achieve those goals - the more hopeful Starmer lot I think believe that you be something different in campaign mode and then get elected and govern radically, with as you say, no doubt of the motives. On the other side i think we look at the disappointing Blair years and see that if you run a party in one way and campaign like that, then you get MPs like that, a manifesto like that and ultimately rule like that (ie non radically). So the important thing is to win the argument beforehand.

Edited April 28, 2021 by mattiloy

[eFestivals]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Looking more likely Boris was a naughty boy.  #

Won't be enough to sink him though.

Spaffer is being undone by his fantasies of what being pm would be. Remember that 'king of the world' thing.

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Fair comment. But then this really comes down to how to achieve those goals - the more hopeful Starmer lot I think believe that you be something different in campaign mode and then get elected and govern radically, with as you say, no doubt of the motives. On the other side i think we look at the disappointing Blair years and see that if you run a party in one way and campaign like that, then you get MPs like that, a manifesto like that and ultimately rule like that (ie non radically). So the important thing is to win the argument beforehand.

The important thing is to win the argument. Corbyn was trying to reverse klong lost arguments without making the argument for why. Blair avoided the arguments he knew he couldn't win or where the outcomes are not the same as the imagined victory. If railways got renationalised. There's new problems for the govt his govt being on the hook for the problems of the railways. It would be hated for any price rises or poor service the reasons why the tories didn't want responsibility for them.

Edited April 28, 2021 by eFestivals

[Ozanne]

It might be enough for the Tories to decide to move against Johnson sooner rather than later.

[Ryan1984]

Spaffer is just going to focus on the vaccine rollout, isn’t he?

[Ozanne]

‘I’ll leave it there for now’ - Starmer.

Wow, what a line. If prove comes out that Johnson said that then it’ll be very interesting.

[Ryan1984]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

‘I’ll leave it there for now’ - Starmer.

Wow, what a line. If prove comes out that Johnson said that then it’ll be very interesting.

Boris seems like a man on edge. Angrier than usual? Pressure getting to him.

[Ozanne]

Starmer’s performance today has been a masterclass. Johnson has been completely riled up and has let Starmer get to him.

He seems very on the edge and under pressure by all of this. 

[JoeyT]

Boris lost his head there. Big time.

[Ozanne]

 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, JoeyT said:

Boris lost his head there. Big time.

If the claims are all bogus then he wouldn’t get so riled up. It’s liars behaviour 101. 

[JoeyT]

 

[SwedgeAntilles]

 

State of your PM, mate.

[Homer]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

If the claims are all bogus then he wouldn’t get so riled up. It’s liars behaviour 101. 

TBH, it was the fact that he refused to answer the questions four times that was most telling. He's clearly broken the rules!

[Ryan1984]

2 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

 

State of your PM, mate.

I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for that pesky Dom.