news & politics:discussion

[mattiloy]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

that 80 seat majority is much like the 100 seat majority May was predicted to get but which was a corbyn victory when when she did't (the huge losses were merely delayed for a few years)

2019 merely delayed the left taking over for a few years. The centre and the right have a huge demographics problem. The centre offers nothing, vaccuous, bereft of ideas. The right is a fraud.

Corbyn was just the beginning. Indeed, there will come a day in the not too distant future when people on all sides of the house will reluctantly admit ’we’re all Corbynites now’.

[fraybentos1]

5 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

2019 merely delayed the left taking over for a few years. The centre and the right have a huge demographics problem. The centre offers nothing, vaccuous, bereft of ideas. The right is a fraud.

Corbyn was just the beginning. Indeed, there will come a day in the not too distant future when people on all sides of the house will reluctantly admit ’we’re all Corbynites now’.

I want some of whatever you're smoking 😂

Why didn't this happen in the 80s when Thatcher was PM and Labour had Michael Foot? Went from him to Kinnock to Smith to Blair to Brown to Milliband.

Seems like once in a while Labour will try go for a further left approach, get crucified at the polls and then take over a decade to recover from it before ruling again. 

Genuine question- who is this left wing saviour for the Labour party who will get elected by the Labour party, let alone the actual electorate? I want realistic names plz

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

The centre offers nothing, vaccuous, bereft of ideas. The right is a fraud.

the centre offers the labour members something to help keep labour out of power. which is the clear aim of many members as you never fail to demonstrATE

12 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Corbyn was just the beginning.

HE WAS THE remaining fragment of the long gone 1970s

 

12 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Indeed, there will come a day in the not too distant future when people on all sides of the house will reluctantly admit ’we’re all Corbynites now’.

no theyre not that dumb. even corbyn doesn't live up to what you demANd of stARMER

[mattiloy]

Hehe, I knew that would boil some centrist piss.

And a great example of why I’m right: the centrists are incapable of looking forward. This strange belief that politics is completely circular and we are destined to just loop back through these reference years between 1970 and 1997 for the rest of history. Nothing new can ever happen.

The world has moved on lads, maybe its time you followed suit.

Edited April 14, 2021 by mattiloy

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Hehe, I knew that would boil some centrist pis

The. Boiling piss is from the sore losers like you who are everything you used to say about those who saw corbyn flaws. 

Quote

And a great example of why I’m right, the centrists are incapable of looking forward.

Except blair who sW the future enough to win it. Or the corbyn. critics who saw the disaster. Corbyn would be. 

 

Quote

 

This strange belief that politics is completely circular and we are destined to just loop back through these reference years between 1970 and 1997 for the rest of history. Nothing new can ever happen.

Says the guy wanting to loop back too the rejected 1970s without understanding it was no no utopia. 

If it had been how did thatch win three times via a complete rejection of it. 

 

Quote

The world has moved on lads, maybe its time you followed suit.

It's no longer the 1970s no one wants interest rates of 20%again.

Edited April 14, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

People like you don't wantgood government you want a god. 

[eFestivals]

32 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I want some of whatever you're smoking 😂

Why didn't this happen in the 80s when Thatcher was PM and Labour had Michael Foot? Went from him to Kinnock to Smith to Blair to Brown to Milliband.

Seems like once in a while Labour will try go for a further left approach, get crucified at the polls and then take over a decade to recover from it before ruling again. 

Genuine question- who is this left wing saviour for the Labour party who will get elected by the Labour party, let alone the actual electorate? I want realistic names plz

The god hasn't yet revealed the myself. 

At least foot was an intellect who learnt lessons in politics. Noot a never learn dullard like Brexit jez. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

What was so great about the 70s anyway for left wing policies.. I only ever see myths. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by eFestivals

[steviewevie]

 

[fraybentos1]

18 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Hehe, I knew that would boil some centrist piss.

And a great example of why I’m right: the centrists are incapable of looking forward. This strange belief that politics is completely circular and we are destined to just loop back through these reference years between 1970 and 1997 for the rest of history. Nothing new can ever happen.

The world has moved on lads, maybe its time you followed suit.

Yeah cause anyone who is not as left wing as you is defo a centrist. 

In a two party system yes politics is fairly circular. The electorate was offered this different approach twice and didn't go for it in 2017 and 2019. Again I ask who is this figure who is going to be Labour leader then PM and save us all? I want names but am not getting any...

You say the world has moved on but I don't really get what you mean.. we have just witnessed bloody Joe Biden become president at like the 10th attempt lol.

[steviewevie]

30 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

The world has moved on lads, maybe its time you followed suit.

we now live in a world of right wing populism.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

Corbyn was just the beginning. Indeed, there will come a day in the not too distant future when people on all sides of the house will reluctantly admit ’we’re all Corbynites now’.

so what of corbynds policies will be central to that. for such a bold prediction you must have detail....?

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

we now live in a world of right wing populism.

the sort of line to ensure the tories keep on winning...

cos tory voters see lines like that of a world they don't recognise and wonder where the left's head is atand don't want ideas they cant recognise in control

being popular is such a heinous crime to a corbynite  cos your hero was personally responsible for Spaffer's huge victory. cos Jez was fiully rejected.

the voters don't want to bre told how shit the country is they want to believe in a bright future and spaffer presents that

Edited April 14, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

they want to believe in a bright future and spaffer presents that

 

[eFestivals]

43 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

 

The world has moved on lads, maybe its time you followed suit.

try taking your own advice

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the sort of line to ensure the tories keep on winning...

cos tory voters see lines like that of a world they don't recognise and wonder where the left's head is atand don't want ideas they cant recognise in control

being popular is such a heinous crime to a corbynite  cos your hero was personally responsible for Spaffer's huge victory. cos Jez was fiully rejected.

the voters don't want to bre told how shit the country is they want to believe in a bright future and spaffer presents that

I mean...actual definition of populism is people vs an elite establisment....so this is what Trump did, drain the swamp, and there's more and more of it across europe and elsewhere...but there can be left wing populism too, like what is often seen in S America...and now they have a right wing one in Bolsonaro. It is very effective, especially when using social media as a propaganda tool. Brexit was a kind of a populist movement...a move against an undemocratic elite who were controlling our lives. Corbyn tried to tap into it often talking about the elite etc, as did May...but Johnson is much more successful. He is a tory politician who went to eton, but somehow he has this image as an outsider, not part of the establishment, who does things a bit differently.

[steviewevie]

I guess how you define whether left wing or right wing populism is how you define an elite establishment...are the elite rich, tax avoiding, private educated, bastards...or are they metropolitan, liberals who are making us feel guilty for not liking immigrants etc?

[Homer]

PMQs in 5. Should be an interesting one in view of the recent 'revelations'.

[mattiloy]

39 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Yeah cause anyone who is not as left wing as you is defo a centrist. 

In a two party system yes politics is fairly circular. The electorate was offered this different approach twice and didn't go for it in 2017 and 2019. Again I ask who is this figure who is going to be Labour leader then PM and save us all? I want names but am not getting any...

You say the world has moved on but I don't really get what you mean.. we have just witnessed bloody Joe Biden become president at like the 10th attempt lol.

I think so. A common misconception of centrists is that Corbynites are all ’far left’ anarchist/communist agitators. In reality Corbynites/Momentum folk I met when I was in the party came from every walk of life and were just ordinary people who were sick and tired of being told that things have just always got to be a bit shit, when the solutions to make it better exist.

I myself studied economics BSc + MSc and now work in banking. I studied in the post financial crisis 2010s and it was clear to me and to most of my coursemates and many of my tutors (the brighter ones anyway) that the erstwhile hegemonic neoclassical model was not fit for purpose, underpinned as it is by flawed assumptions. But these flaws have also always been known, the model is convenient because it provides academic cover for raw greed, in essence.

I’m for a mixed economy. The market has a role but not in key industries where demand is near enough perfectly inelastic and therefore customer choice and competition, the supposed main drivers of efficiency in the private sector, are missing. In that instance you get a business that can be just as inefficient as a state run business but with the profits going to shareholders (ie rail) instead of back to the treasury (although anyway, its a myth that state run enterprises are necessarily inefficient).

Then I’m for higher taxes on dividends/capital gains.

Then things like scrapping tuition fees... constitutional reform (PR)... scrapping the lords

To me, if you’re the the right of that, if your idea of ’left wing’ is a 1.5% increase in nurses pay rather than a 0.5% increase, you are labouring (pardon the pun) under a misapprehension of the term ’left wing’.

Edited April 14, 2021 by mattiloy

[Ozanne]

8 minutes ago, Homer said:

PMQs in 5. Should be an interesting one in view of the recent 'revelations'.

Sadly it won’t make any difference but I still watch 😆

[Ozanne]

Johnson ‘this government has been tough on lobbying’ 😂

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I think so. A common misconception of centrists is that Corbynites are all ’far left’ anarchist/communist agitators. In reality Corbynites/Momentum folk I met when I was in the party came from every walk of life and were just ordinary people who were sick and tired of being told that things have just always got to be a bit shit, when the solutions to make it better exist.

I myself studied economics BSc + MSc and now work in banking. I studied in the post financial crisis 2010s and it was clear to me and to most of my coursemates and many of my tutors (the brighter ones anyway) that the erstwhile hegemonic neoclassical model was not fit for purpose, underpinned as it is by flawed assumptions. But these flaws have also always been known, the model is convenient because it provides academic cover for raw greed, in essence.

I’m for a mixed economy. The market has a role but not in key industries where demand is near enough perfectly inelastic and therefore customer choice and competition, the supposed main drivers of efficiency in the private sector, are missing. In that instance you get a business that can be just as inefficient as a state run business but with the profits going to shareholders (ie rail) instead of back to the treasury (although anyway, its a myth that state run enterprises are necessarily inefficient).

Then I’m for higher taxes on dividends/capital gains.

Then things like scrapping tuition fees... constitutional reform (PR)... scrapping the lords

To me, if you’re the the right of that, if your idea of ’left wing’ is a 1.5% increase in nurses pay rather than a 0.5% increase, you are labouring (pardon the pun) under a misapprehension of the term ’left wing’.

we used to have a mixed economy until Thatcher came along and changed everything....and really we're still living with that now.

[Ozanne]

This is amazing 🤣

Keir Starmer ‘just ridiculous’ then laughs at Johnson’s response. 

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I mean...actual definition of populism is people vs an elite establisment....so this is what Trump did

you can be like trump if you want. don't expect respect for being like trump.

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

in the swamp, and there's more and more of it across europe and elsewhere...but there can be left wing populism too, like what is often seen in S America...and now they have a right wing one in Bolsonaro. It is very effective, especially when using social media as a propaganda tool.

one for the tools who aren't smart enough to  beat the people they say are stupid

 

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Brexit was a kind of a populist movement...a move against an undemocratic elite who were controlling our lives.

 

i see you've bought the corbyn kool aid.. he offered reform too stupid to join up the dots with fat dave just having been told it wasnt available. so corbyn offered nothing. the eu controlled nothing of my life how did they control yours?????

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

 

Corbyn tried to tap into it often talking about the elite etc, as did May...but Johnson is much more successful. He is a tory politician who went to eton, but somehow he has this image as an outsider, not part of the establishment, who does things a bit differently.

an image of intelligence and with ideas that align with the electorate as opposed to ideas the electorate aren't interested in: corbyn was trying to flog beefburgers at a vegetarian convention.

[Homer]

14 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Indeed. Of all the people you'd want to be leader of the opposition at the time when the tories engage is wanton corruption, surely its an eminent barrister and yet... radio silence.

Just asked all six Qs at PMQs about it.