news & politics:discussion

[mcshed]

39 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

I think it’s best to get a feel for the direction of travel here by looking at the numbers over the last decade or so.

Edit: In case you’re interested, I see there has been an additional tweet issued caveating that polling you’ve quoted. 

I'll freely admit that these couple of polls are a drop in the ocean of signs things are going the other way. 

[Ozanne]

 

[gizmoman]

46 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

Why hasn't someone tried this before, just spend money you don't have and can't possibly pay back?

Oh they have,

In fact it's been tried many times throughout history and it always ends the same way eventually, destruction of the currency.

[topmarksbri]

13 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Why hasn't someone tried this before, just spend money you don't have and can't possibly pay back?

Oh they have,

In fact it's been tried many times throughout history and it always ends the same way eventually, destruction of the currency.

I'm sorry but this just isn't true. Fiat currency already works on the basis that central banks can essentially create wealth - as in the clip above the government is basically borrowing money from itself. I'd suggest reading up a bit on modern monetary theory, but even  even traditional economists agree at the moment that you'd be mad to not borrow more with interest rates at what they are. We didn't finish paying off the WW2 debt until 2006 and I didn't notice the pound being destroyed?

[gizmoman]

4 minutes ago, topmarksbri said:

I'm sorry but this just isn't true. Fiat currency already works on the basis that central banks can essentially create wealth - as in the clip above the government is basically borrowing money from itself. I'd suggest reading up a bit on modern monetary theory, but even  even traditional economists agree at the moment that you'd be mad to not borrow more with interest rates at what they are. We didn't finish paying off the WW2 debt until 2006 and I didn't notice the pound being destroyed?

"central banks can essentially create wealth", you clearly don't understand the difference between wealth and currency, they can certainly create as much currency as they like, just like Zimbabwe did.

"We didn't finish paying off the WW2 debt until 2006 and I didn't notice the pound being destroyed?"

In 1947 the average wage was £278 pa it's now £38000 so although the pound hasn't been destroyed entirely it's value has been reduced by over 99%.

Did the economy grow or shrink after WW2? It was a period of growth of course, and as long as the economy is growing you can reduce the debt through inflation, as long as It continues at a steady pace the debt is steadily reduced in real terms, of course the public are actually paying it through the loss of purchasing power. If we are lucky we will have good growth once this crisis is over and so the debt can be again paid down, but it's the younger people who will be paying it. if however we have no growth or a economic contraction we are in serious trouble. How long can we continue to grow in a finite world? How much private debt is there in the system? (compare that to post WW2 when there were no credit cards etc.) MMT might as well mean Magic Money Tree, you can't create wealth from nothing it has to be earned I.E. created through labour (or stolen).

[steviewevie]

Turns out the royals are a bunch of nasty, racist bastards.

Edited March 8, 2021 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

https://www.republic.org.uk/

[mcshed]

17 hours ago, gizmoman said:

In fact it's been tried many times throughout history and it always ends the same way eventually, destruction of the currency.

You do know Japan has being doing this for about a decade now and whilst the results haven't been universally positive and the Yen has experienced some devaluation it certainly hasn't led to the destruction of the currency.

Edited March 8, 2021 by mcshed

[squirrelarmy]

17 hours ago, gizmoman said:

Why hasn't someone tried this before, just spend money you don't have and can't possibly pay back?

Oh they have,

When I tell people I’m a Trillionaire they don’t believe me. I do actually own a sizeable amount of Zimbabwe dollars. 

[gizmoman]

1 hour ago, mcshed said:

You do know Japan has being doing this for about a decade now and whilst the results haven't been universally positive and the Yen has experienced some devaluation it certainly hasn't led to the destruction of the currency.

In the past when nations trashed their currency there was usually a sound measure to compare it to, now all currencies are tied to the US dollar which is also inflating at a crazy pace the results are not as noticeable in the short term, but the problem is there, building out of sight, the whole global monetary system needs replacing, that will happen sooner or later with a massive crash or a managed transformation, I suspect it's not too far away. Always good to bear in mind the Hemingway quote,

“How did you go bankrupt?"
Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”

[mcshed]

46 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

In the past when nations trashed their currency there was usually a sound measure to compare it to, now all currencies are tied to the US dollar which is also inflating at a crazy pace the results are not as noticeable in the short term, but the problem is there, building out of sight, the whole global monetary system needs replacing, that will happen sooner or later with a massive crash or a managed transformation, I suspect it's not too far away. Always good to bear in mind the Hemingway quote,

“How did you go bankrupt?"
Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”

Why am I not surprised that you think the end of the world is nigh. 

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, gizmoman said:

US dollar which is also inflating at a crazy pace

Yeah? Maybe you should tell the fed that their statistics are all wrong 

[gizmoman]

3 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Yeah? Maybe you should tell the fed that their statistics are all wrong 

I wasn't talking about the inflation rate, I was referring to the increase in the money supply, until the financial crisis in 2008 things were stable, since then there has been a rapid increase, with a massive covid spike, this should in normal times lead to inflation but people aren't spending, velocity of money is low.

[steviewevie]

it's ok, the Queen isn't racist. Or Prince Phillip.

[gizmoman]

Forgot to add. much of that new money has gone into the stock market to keep the illusion of prosperity alive.

[gizmoman]

4 hours ago, mcshed said:

Why am I not surprised that you think the end of the world is nigh. 

I don't, I'm not a climate change cultist. A change to the financial system won't bring about the end of the world just a period of adjustment.

[maelzoid]

20 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

I don't, I'm not a climate change cultist. A change to the financial system won't bring about the end of the world just a period of adjustment.

Climate change is not a cult. It is scientific fact, backed up by overwhelming evidence.

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

I don't, I'm not a climate change cultist. A change to the financial system won't bring about the end of the world just a period of adjustment.

it's the only cult you're not part of.

[gizmoman]

7 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

Climate change is not a cult. It is scientific fact, backed up by overwhelming evidence.

We could argue about the causes of climate change and the effect that man has on it but the fact is there are people who do respond in a cult-like way to this subject, Greta, for example seems to have no sense of proportionality in her outbursts on climate change, to her and those like her this is the only thing to care about. they disregard the fact that man is the most adaptable species on the planet and that any changes can be managed. None of this is meant to imply we shouldn't adopt a greener and more sustainable approach, we certainly should, there are many things we can improve. we just don't need to carry on as if the world is about to end.

[gizmoman]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it's the only cult you're not part of.

Not true, I'm not a member of the cult of Covid either. (see my answer above - re: becoming obsessive about CC).

[mcshed]

56 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

I don't, I'm not a climate change cultist. A change to the financial system won't bring about the end of the world just a period of adjustment.

You think the global financial system is about to collapse causing mass upheaval, you believe COVID is being used as social engineering causing mass upheaval. You are a catastrophist who enjoys the thought of living through the end times.

[Ozanne]

 

 

[squirrelarmy]

21 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

 

If that happened here we wouldn’t have anyone left in government 

[Punksnotdead]

48 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

If that happened here we wouldn’t have anyone left in government 

I'm not seeing a downside to this! 🙂

[Ozanne]

 

Daily Mail Political Editor going in on Johnson a bit today.