news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

Strike!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/05/tory-minister-nadine-dorries-says-1-pay-offer-for-nhs-staff-was-pleasant-surprise

[topmarksbri]

18 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I mean...Starmer has been a bit meh recently, there's no doubt about it....but also these polls are mostly reflecting what is going on with the pandemic...tories dropped in polls with all the shit going on last autumn and winter..but now we are approaching the end of lockdown and the vaccine rollout has been really successful, up they go again. In the end labour under Starmer is not really making many gains from when Corbyn was leader, he's gained some centrist type voters, but lost a bunch on the left...and is not winning over all those brexity red wall voters that seem to hold all the cards these days.  I think we're looking at a tory govt for the forseeable.

I don't really agree with all of this but something noteworthy is where the gains Labour have made are coming from - vast majority seem to be lib dem to labour voters which doesn't really help them. Look at Labour target seats for next election and look at Lib Dem - Lib Dem to Labour voters does nothing for Labour. Labour need lib dem voters to stay lib dem to take seats off tories as well as make gains themselves.

[topmarksbri]

Incidently, looking at nationwide polling % is in my opinion a pretty blunt form of analysis in first past the post where popular vote doesn't count for anything.

[steviewevie]

look after our own

 

[mcshed]

 

Just one poll, don't get over excited, etc, etc, but I'm delighted to see this.

[steviewevie]

 

[Gilgamesh69]

16 minutes ago, mcshed said:

 

Just one poll, don't get over excited, etc, etc, but I'm delighted to see this.

Are you pro-union?

[steviewevie]

Frost diplomacy.

[mcshed]

14 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Are you pro-union?

Yes or as I prefer to think of it anti the fever dream of a lecherous oil-economist.

[Comfy Bean]

36 minutes ago, mcshed said:

 

Just one poll, don't get over excited, etc, etc, but I'm delighted to see this.

Tories pushing ahead in the Westminster polls and now the folks living in Scotland wanting to stick with a Tory Government they didn’t vote for. Scenes 😔

[mcshed]

8 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

Tories pushing ahead in the Westminster polls and now the folks living in Scotland wanting to stick with a Tory Government they didn’t vote for. Scenes 😔

It's almost as if the merits of Independence should be measured in more important terms than the popularity of the current Westminster administration.

[mcshed]

8 hours ago, mcshed said:

 

Just one poll, don't get over excited, etc, etc, but I'm delighted to see this.

 

Still not worth getting carried away but not just the one poll now. 

[steviewevie]

30 minutes ago, mcshed said:

It's almost as if the merits of Independence should be measured in more important terms than the popularity of the current Westminster administration.

what about the previous one, or the one before that, or...etc?

[steviewevie]

32 minutes ago, mcshed said:

It's almost as if the merits of Independence should be measured in more important terms than the popularity of the current Westminster administration.

and maybe also more important than the popularity of Sturgeon?

I don't blame Scots for wanting independence, I would...but the big problem with it is money.

[mcshed]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

what about the previous one, or the one before that, or...etc?

Well the effects of Independence will fundamentally change the way of life in the country permanently. Fifty years after independence we would live on a more divided island whatever happens in politics, fifty years ago Scotland voted Tory. So yeah it's a bigger deal than the previous one or the one before that. 

[mcshed]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and maybe also more important than the popularity of Sturgeon?

I don't blame Scots for wanting independence, I would...but the big problem with it is money.

It is silly that Nicola's personal ratings are closely linked with support for independence.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Well the effects of Independence will fundamentally change the way of life in the country permanently. Fifty years after independence we would live on a more divided island whatever happens in politics, fifty years ago Scotland voted Tory. So yeah it's a bigger deal than the previous one or the one before that. 

and 300 years ago you were independent.

[mcshed]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and 300 years ago you were independent.

Are you suggesting that independent nations can change there status with as much ease as public political opinion changes?

 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Are you suggesting that independent nations can change there status with as much ease as public political opinion changes?

 

no, but nothing is permanent. It was because of money Scotland joined the union, and probably money that will keep them in (and some Sturgeon/Salmond soap opera).

[mcshed]

Just now, steviewevie said:

no, but nothing is permanent. It was because of money Scotland joined the union, and probably money that will keep them in (and some Sturgeon/Salmond soap opera).

Nothing is permanent but the time scales are different, political landscapes change by the decade whilst nations rise and fall by the century. 

[mcshed]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and some Sturgeon/Salmond soap opera

Not sure if it can be a Sturgeon/Salmond soap opera keeping us in if the original support for leaving was built on personal support for Salmond and Sturgeon.

[steviewevie]

Johnson the greased piglet

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/07/labour-must-not-let-boris-johnson-emerge-as-covid-hero

[Comfy Bean]

4 hours ago, mcshed said:

It's almost as if the merits of Independence should be measured in more important terms than the popularity of the current Westminster administration.

Agreed. Folks living in Scotland can’t vote out a Tory Government no matter how unpopular Tory policies might be in Scotland.

It’s crazy to assume that a politically independent Scotland would vote SNP for centuries. If the folk living in Scotland didn’t like the Party in power then they can vote them out. Keeps everybody accountable.

It’s a system that works fine for plenty Countries, big and small, all over the globe.

As things stand folk living in Scotland don’t get the government they vote for 🤷‍♂️ Not to mention membership of the EU that 32 out of 32 council ward areas in Scotland voted to remain in 🤷‍♂️

I think a country should get the government they vote for and have opportunity to vote them out.

I like to think that I’d say the same if Scotland voted Tory in nearly every seat and England voted all Labour. Is that fair that Scotland would have an unwanted Labour Government setting the policies ?

Appreciate I’m being silly now but just trying to highlight my point is more around democracy and fairness rather than just being anti Tory.

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

5 hours ago, mcshed said:

 

Still not worth getting carried away but not just the one poll now. 

I think it’s best to get a feel for the direction of travel here by looking at the numbers over the last decade or so.

Edit: In case you’re interested, I see there has been an additional tweet issued caveating that polling you’ve quoted. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Comfy Bean

[mcshed]

44 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

It’s crazy to assume that a politically independent Scotland would vote SNP for centuries. If the folk living in Scotland didn’t like the Party in power then they can vote them out. Keeps everybody accountable.

I don't think we'd have centuries of SNP rule I think sooner rather than later we'd have right or centre-right wing leaders of some kind or another but they would be right wing leaders of a diminished nation.